Battery degradation

Faults and Technical chat for the Volkswagen ID.3
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Andreas
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Post by Andreas »

Li-Ion batteries degrade over time, more so if you treat them harshly (full discharge/100% recharge cycles, constant DC charging). I paid some attention yesterday, as I put the car on the Source London charger at 20%. Given that it was free after four hours (overnight cut-off), I charged to 90% as I am cheap b*gger. The delivered charge according to Source London was 55.8kWh. The received charge according to Ionity was 53.9kWh (96.7% efficiency). As this equalled 70% of SoC difference, it implies a battery maximum charge capacity of 77kWh, and battery degradation of 0%, after 5,020 miles and with a 44/56 mix of AC/DC charging.

Has anyone else looked at this and noted battery degradation? Interested in other people's experience.

All the best

Andreas
——————
ID.3 Tour, manganese grey, bi-colour style, heat pump, otherwise standard. July 2021, London.
Http://rommelsriposte.com (not car related)

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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

I haven't looked at this. Your calculation does imply zero degradation but is the calculation really as simple as that?
I don't want to look for bones in bannans but feel there is something missing. I cant fault the logic though.
I will do the same on my next charge.
Dave
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

The data I have stored in Tronity with the same calculation is indicating I have no battery dedgradation over 11 months.
My AC/DC ratio is 88%/12%.
Hopefully there will be more input on this thread.
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Andreas
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Post by Andreas »

Daveion wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:42 am I haven't looked at this. Your calculation does imply zero degradation but is the calculation really as simple as that?
I don't want to look for bones in bannans but feel there is something missing. I cant fault the logic though.
I will do the same on my next charge.
Dave
I agree it feels like I'm missing something, but cannot put my finger on what that would be.

I'm guessing it's not an exact science, as "20" can be between 19.5 and 20.49 and the same for 90. So it may have been at lower level to start with and charged higher. That would give a maximum degradation of 1.4%, applying the same formula, and using the worst case scenario (i.e.71% charged instead of 70%).

All the best

Andreas
——————
ID.3 Tour, manganese grey, bi-colour style, heat pump, otherwise standard. July 2021, London.
Http://rommelsriposte.com (not car related)
Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 »

I never measured the efficiency or degradation of any ICE car over time, I like just driving my BEV and it gets me to where I need to go :)
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

scott28tt wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:47 am I never measured the efficiency or degradation of any ICE car over time, I like just driving my BEV and it gets me to where I need to go :)
I know. Some of us do though! I think the difference is we grew up with ICE and knew what to expect, how they work. The tech has changed so much in my lifetime I think it's natural to ask those questions without spoiling the ride.
The perspective.
In 1969 my Freinds and I wanted to go to Brands Hatch but the only car we had, a Ford Popular, had blown a head gasket. There was a spare side valve engine in the garden by Dad's shed so we pulled the engine out of the Pop at 9:30am, changed the sump that had been damaged on the spare, dropped the old engine oil into the spare, put it in the car and 2 hours later we were at Brands Hatch 10 miles away. Degradation was not even a word then 😂
As time passes I think battery degradation will be a major topic on the forum.
Dave
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Just looked at my charging history on the Ohme app. For those "full 4 hours 5p rate" charges, its consistently added 41% range when I've been under 40% remaining from when I really started taking notice. In the first month of ownership, those 4 hour charges were delivering about 28.3kWh ave, then after that, it's more like 30.0kWh. I'm presuming the Ohme is metering what it grabs from my electricity supply than what is actually delivered into the battery. If that's the case then it would seem as though my charger is delivering 5% more electricity than it used to in 4 hours overnight, or is wasting 5% more.
Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps Aurora Blue, replaced ID3 PP Family

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MotMot
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Post by MotMot »

monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Daveion wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:24 pm
scott28tt wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:47 am I never measured the efficiency or degradation of any ICE car over time, I like just driving my BEV and it gets me to where I need to go :)
I know. Some of us do though! I think the difference is we grew up with ICE and knew what to expect, how they work. The tech has changed so much in my lifetime I think it's natural to ask those questions without spoiling the ride.
The perspective.
In 1969 my Freinds and I wanted to go to Brands Hatch but the only car we had, a Ford Popular, had blown a head gasket. There was a spare side valve engine in the garden by Dad's shed so we pulled the engine out of the Pop at 9:30am, changed the sump that had been damaged on the spare, dropped the old engine oil into the spare, put it in the car and 2 hours later we were at Brands Hatch 10 miles away. Degradation was not even a word then 😂
As time passes I think battery degradation will be a major topic on the forum.
Dave
It's an interesting topic. I just hope the outcome is to be pleasantly supplied and reassured how low it actually is!! Looks like between our 2 ID3s we've done around 50 x 4 hour charges since mid May.
Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps Aurora Blue, replaced ID3 PP Family

Audi S3 - because I hate rapid charging for long distance driving.

Octopus referral: https://share.octopus.energy/lush-fawn-565
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

I'm not sure on this but unless you add ambient into the mix it's not a true comparison.
I think if it's cold some energy is used to condition the batteries for charging.
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Andreas
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Post by Andreas »

Daveion wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:32 pm I'm not sure on this but unless you add ambient into the mix it's not a true comparison.
I think if it's cold some energy is used to condition the batteries for charging.
Car was preheated before I drove it over and not parked in a very cold location (underground car park with higher ambient temperature).

Take your point though.

All the best

Andreas
——————
ID.3 Tour, manganese grey, bi-colour style, heat pump, otherwise standard. July 2021, London.
Http://rommelsriposte.com (not car related)
Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 »

Daveion wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:24 pm
scott28tt wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:47 am I never measured the efficiency or degradation of any ICE car over time, I like just driving my BEV and it gets me to where I need to go :)
I know. Some of us do though!

I deal with enough spreadsheets in my work :lol:
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