12V Battery

Faults and Technical chat for the Volkswagen ID.3
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G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

A random thought popped into my head about the upcoming (reportedly) battery recall and replacement and the ID.3 12V Battery. It's difficult to see any details under the bonnet but a few searches and the battery seems to be a standard car battery. Most car batteries have one main important job to do and that's turn the engine over and so are rated to deliver a huge amount of Cold cranking amps. The id.3 doesn't need this, so wouldn't it be more prudent to have used a so called Leisure Battery which is designed for long term low level supply rather than that big hit?

This may be the case, but as I say I couldn't see any identifying marks on mine. I did search online for a replacement however and the suggested alternatives were as above standard car batteries.

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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

Thats an interesting point. Cranking can take 500 amps on a very cold engine.
Could it be the economies of scale (cost) that make the 12v lead acid 60 amp/hr? Battety the best candidate.
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MotMot
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Post by MotMot »

Why lead acid? Could just as easily be a different (li-ion) tech?

Leisure batteries from memory have different plate shape/configurations so they can run low/med currents for longer with less deg.
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

Yes but economies of scale may make a standard 12v battery the most cost effective option.
Every ICE has one so manufacturers have an agreed procurement cost and process for jit.
That makes more sense to me.
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G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

If your reeplacing them under warranty it's surely time to look at it. Seems Tesla used a similar standard battery but are moving to a Li based solution.
in an ICE car the 12v delivers it's huge effort to start the car and then the alternnator takes the strain, they're not designed to be used constantly I suspect the ID.3 subjects it to a more prolonged drain top up drain cycle and reduces it's life considerably.
An Optima Yellow top is about 3 times the price however..
fordfocusman
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Post by fordfocusman »

Over the last few days I'm getting an amber warning triangle and a low 12v battery charge message, plus the suggestion that I should drive the car to charge it. Now I have been driving it daily for the past week, doing about 40 minutes twice a day, half of it motorway driving, Clicking into the notifications/reports gives me the screen below. Anybody else have this? Could be a random software bug, I suppose. If is it a real battery issue It shouldn't be happening with a year old bog standard 12v battery. I'll phone the dealer tomorrow.

IMG_20220213_172317.jpg

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roadhawk
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Post by roadhawk »

I had this when my 12v battery was failing, in the end getting it replaced under warranty. I started to get a lot of errors on startup, which I do not think helps the car, getting the proactive occupant restraint warning also after a time. I had tried driving and trickle charging the battery and that did not help. This was in July 2021.
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G4XUR
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Post by G4XUR »

My understanding of the upcoming recall is we get a new design 12v battery replacement with a few control unit exchanges and then ready for v3.0 update.
G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

G4XUR wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:27 pm My understanding of the upcoming recall is we get a new design 12v battery replacement with a few control unit exchanges and then ready for v3.0 update.
I can recall seeing that the 12v battery would be replaced, and there was mention of other updates that were 'module dependant' but there was nothing to suggest that if a car's current module was not able to be updated it would be replaced. I read it as quite the opposite and that any early cars would not potentially be updated as fully.
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Interesting I shall have to re-read. I am definitely of the mind that “older” modules that can’t be updated OTA are being replaced in this campaign with “newer” modules that can be updated OTA.

This is specifically around the battery preheating fixes being talked about - cars with 2.3 factory fit already have the OTA capable modules.

However I may well have misunderstood or misread the various VW missives on this topic!
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G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

Utumno wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:21 pm Interesting I shall have to re-read. I am definitely of the mind that “older” modules that can’t be updated OTA are being replaced in this campaign with “newer” modules that can be updated OTA.

This is specifically around the battery preheating fixes being talked about - cars with 2.3 factory fit already have the OTA capable modules.

However I may well have misunderstood or misread the various VW missives on this topic!
I would love to see some official release but the only one I saw I read something like, 'Yes, where compatibility with hardware allows these update will appear on older vehicles.' That seems to have been picked up as 'We're all getting new ECU's!!' somewhat optimistic I feel. It's a bit like the lower power motor only needing a software tweak, there's little evidence to back this up but it's gospel on many forums and Fb.

Edit - Found the announcement I was on about.

d257abd4a0e9eddcb2809aaa216ad78ed83c1327.png

3rd paragraph - that doesn't suggest to me that those of us with older cars will get new modules.
G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

OK.. knew it was in here somewhere.. 'deleteduser182' (wonder how his eGolf is?) posted the text in viewtopic.php?t=1463

3rd and 5th paragraphs don't give me any positivity with regards to hardware modules being replaced, if anything that language clearly states it won't happen.
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Ah I see your point and thanks for chasing that detail out.

3rd paragraph I took to read that the fleet won't be recalled to have absolutely identical features between model years, but VW will try to make new features fit into existing hardware if it suits them. Ie if you have a v1 feature with v1 hardware, VW won't recall your vehicle to fit v2 hardware so you can enjoy a v2 feature. This makes perfect sense to me; VW are saying just because newer cars might have new infotainment hardware (for example), it's not going to be retrofitted to the fleet.

That said the 4th paragraph I take to read that when you get the new battery, more ECU's will also be made OTA available (which may or may not be by a hardware swap - might just be an OTA-capable firmware upgrade). I totally agree that my original wording was wrong (I did say hardware swap specifically!) so apologies about that! The end result is the same though; more of the ECU's in the car are being made OTA-capable as part of the 12V battery campaign.
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Post by G43FAN »

I think we're all searching for any slip of information whether it be about the ridiculous delivery times in your case or the future updates for those of us lucky enough to actually have a car.

You are right the 4th paragraph does imply a more optimistic outcome and indeed I hope so. There are already cars on 2.3 that have the different parameters for battery heating so this may well be a firmware update only. If not and it is to be delivered to the older cars then indeed I guess a module swap is needed. I wonder who will get a car on software version 3.0 first, myself via a recall and an OTA update or you by picking it up from the dealers.
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

G43FAN wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:45 pm I think we're all searching for any slip of information whether it be about the ridiculous delivery times in your case or the future updates for those of us lucky enough to actually have a car.

You are right the 4th paragraph does imply a more optimistic outcome and indeed I hope so. There are already cars on 2.3 that have the different parameters for battery heating so this may well be a firmware update only. If not and it is to be delivered to the older cars then indeed I guess a module swap is needed. I wonder who will get a car on software version 3.0 first, myself via a recall and an OTA update or you by picking it up from the dealers.

My money is on me getting the very last MY22/2.3 software Tour coming out of the factory, and arriving on my driveway just after all the 3.0 OTA’s have completed so I have to wait another 6 months for 3.0’s features 😂

Honestly, I could have had a Model Y on my drive in the first two weeks of March, and you couldn’t even order the bloody thing when we ordered our Tour…
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fordfocusman
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Post by fordfocusman »

roadhawk wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 6:01 am I had this when my 12v battery was failing, in the end getting it replaced under warranty. I started to get a lot of errors on startup, which I do not think helps the car, getting the proactive occupant restraint warning also after a time. I had tried driving and trickle charging the battery and that did not help. This was in July 2021.
I did visit the workshop - the dealer to you and me- yesterday as advised by the notification. However the notification was no longer displayed. It chose to disappear like a toothache on the way to the dentist. The dealer said 'as there are no error messages showing there is no point in plugging in the diagnostic yoke. It won't show anything! Probably just a glitch, Maybe the battery was a bit low and now its topped up. Anyway, if it does let you down we'll just pick the car up and bring it in.' Thus comforted, I drove home again. Got lots of start up error messages when I started the car this morning, No 12 v battery error message though. So that's all grand then...
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