Battery heating

Faults and Technical chat for the Volkswagen ID.3
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Dinsdale
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Post by Dinsdale »

I see in a lot of reviews that on short trips a lot of power is used to heat the battery. But does the ID3 make the max of it and use the heat pump to do the battery heating as well as the cabin heating?
ID3 Tour, Heat pump, sports pack, moonstone grey
ordered 24/01/22
Arrived: 05/05/23

Elderbean
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Post by Elderbean »

The heat pump affects the cabin only, it doesn’t warm the battery. The theory being it is more efficient and therefore draws less power from the battery compared to standard heating. You can find more here https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electri ... -pump.html
Id3 Tour
Ord mid Oct ‘21
Due date Apr ‘22/Wk 45/Wk 47/Wk 12 2023/Wk 16 2023
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31515xxx
Dinsdale
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Post by Dinsdale »

Yeah, i get that its more efficent and draws less power, so therefor why would they not use it to warm the battery as well as the cabin? there by using less power from the battery to get the battery to temp

Seems to me they missed a trick there, didnt realise till i seen some reviews how much is used warming the battery on cold days
ID3 Tour, Heat pump, sports pack, moonstone grey
ordered 24/01/22
Arrived: 05/05/23
sidehaas
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Post by sidehaas »

It won't affect your car very much unless the temperatures are regularly below freezing where you live. They have changed the setpoints on MY22 cars so that battery heating doesn't kick in between 0 and 8 degrees. I have had my car for a month doing school runs in this temperature range most mornings and to date it has never kicked in, without cabin heating on I regularly get consumption >3.5m/kwh on short 20mph school runs and sometimes close to 4.5 (whereas my overall average including long runs is only 3.0).
If the fabled software 3.0 ever gets issued you may get some even better solution.
ID.3 Family Pro Performance (Jan 22), Makena Turquoise / East Derry alloys. Ohme Home Pro charger.
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

sidehaas wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:04 am It won't affect your car very much unless the temperatures are regularly below freezing where you live. They have changed the setpoints on MY22 cars so that battery heating doesn't kick in between 0 and 8 degrees. I have had my car for a month doing school runs in this temperature range most mornings and to date it has never kicked in, without cabin heating on I regularly get consumption >3.5m/kwh on short 20mph school runs and sometimes close to 4.5 (whereas my overall average including long runs is only 3.0).
If the fabled software 3.0 ever gets issued you may get some even better solution.
Thats encouraging. In the South East I've not seen many period below zero C in ecent years. Look forward to update level 3.0
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

Dinsdale wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 8:54 am Yeah, i get that its more efficent and draws less power, so therefor why would they not use it to warm the battery as well as the cabin? there by using less power from the battery to get the battery to temp

Seems to me they missed a trick there, didnt realise till i seen some reviews how much is used warming the battery on cold days
This has been raised a while back and Im not sure it was a missed trick. A technical article we looked at described a number of run-around coils that pass seconday coolant that is warmer than the batteries through the battery heating system. It alluded to the heat pump being able to contribute to battery heating but to what proportion not expressed.
I think the change in battery heating threshold down from 8C to zeroC is a huge step forward for all models with or without heat pumps.
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Dinsdale
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Post by Dinsdale »

sidehaas wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:04 am It won't affect your car very much unless the temperatures are regularly below freezing where you live. They have changed the setpoints on MY22 cars so that battery heating doesn't kick in between 0 and 8 degrees. I have had my car for a month doing school runs in this temperature range most mornings and to date it has never kicked in, without cabin heating on I regularly get consumption >3.5m/kwh on short 20mph school runs and sometimes close to 4.5 (whereas my overall average including long runs is only 3.0).
If the fabled software 3.0 ever gets issued you may get some even better solution.
Thanks for that, didnt know that but it certainly sounds like a big improvement. Happy days :)
ID3 Tour, Heat pump, sports pack, moonstone grey
ordered 24/01/22
Arrived: 05/05/23
MotMot
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Post by MotMot »

I believe Tesla use waste heat from the motor in the battery heating....

I do wish VW would also introduce pre-heating for rapid charging - would be nice to do that. Yesterday I did two 2 hour motorway runs - and at the end of each OBD showed the battery was only at 15 degrees (4-6 degrees outside) despite being used quite hard. One of the other readings is max amps that can be added (via a charge) and when at 10-20% charge at this temp it was about 230-240a. With a 400v battery thats c.80kw.
Dinsdale
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Post by Dinsdale »

MotMot wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:45 pm I believe Tesla use waste heat from the motor in the battery heating....

I do wish VW would also introduce pre-heating for rapid charging - would be nice to do that. Yesterday I did two 2 hour motorway runs - and at the end of each OBD showed the battery was only at 15 degrees (4-6 degrees outside) despite being used quite hard. One of the other readings is max amps that can be added (via a charge) and when at 10-20% charge at this temp it was about 230-240a. With a 400v battery thats c.80kw.
Could be worse, I havea 40kWh Leaf, it has no battery temperature management at all, it just relys on the outside air to cool it. Usually it works ok but if you do 2 back to back rapid charges it heats up really badly, then on the 3rd charge the rate REALLY drops of, down to like 7 or 8 kW. It caused a real stink early on and became known as Rapidgate, nissan said they may have been over cautious with the throttling back to protect the battery and have issued a software "fix" for it, but still you wont get more than about 25kw and of course you know are running your battery hot. at least the ID.3 does not have this issue.
ID3 Tour, Heat pump, sports pack, moonstone grey
ordered 24/01/22
Arrived: 05/05/23
Vic Thompson
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Post by Vic Thompson »

As an aside, is there a straightforward way for a numpty like me to find out at what temperature the Battery Heating kicks in at ? For instance is it included in any user accessible vehicle display data set or "inferred" by knowing what software version the car has installed ? Either way, if it can be worked out by the driver from vehicle screen views, could anyone explain to me in straightforward steps how I can view any of the relevant info.

Thanks, Vic Thompson.
Last edited by Vic Thompson on Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

8 degrees C seems to be a figure mentioned frequently, although there are now cars on the road that have already had this adjusted to the new threshold of 0C
You can see when it is in use as the consumption even when stationary is high.
You can use ODB Dongles and readily available phone apps to view a lot of data like Battery Temperatures and consumption also.
monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

14C seems to be the ambient temp that beyond which requires no battery heating, on our 2 ID3s. If you turn the aircon off and set the blowers to low, they are providing no heating, so you can see you efficiency being unaffected by cabin heating and AC. Above 14C I can easily exceed 4 miles per kWh in urban driving and 3.5 sat at 70mph on a dual carriageway.

At 8C, that's more like 3.2 urban /2.8 @70mph
At 2C, it's more like 2.5 urban/2.1 @70mph

All the above figures based on a 5 mile journey, well before the batteries have had a chance to heat up.

Convenience consumers (if the ID3 has it, my Polo GTI did, never looked for it on the ID3) break down individual system usage, like AC/heating.
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Audi S3 - because I hate rapid charging for long distance driving.

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