What’s Up with the charging speeds ?

Faults and Technical chat for the Volkswagen ID.3
Coopear
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:59 pm

Re: What’s Up with the charging speeds ?

Post by Coopear » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:37 pm

Update on charge after battery prep (not positive!)
Advice from Ionity was
1- driving for 30-40 minutes at highway speeds prior to charge to ensure battery is warm
2- not having the battery less than 20% prior to charge
3- nice warm day

Nothing to be done about the warm day but was about the same as Thursday. Today I’d driven for around 40 minutes on the A1, and battery was at 50%. Result was half the rate when I’d done no prep :-/ 30kW today instead of the 60 I got Thursday. So the mystery remains.

Jel
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:58 pm

Re: What’s Up with the charging speeds ?

Post by Jel » Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:07 am

Coopear wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:37 pm
Update on charge after battery prep (not positive!)
Advice from Ionity was
1- driving for 30-40 minutes at highway speeds prior to charge to ensure battery is warm
2- not having the battery less than 20% prior to charge
3- nice warm day

Nothing to be done about the warm day but was about the same as Thursday. Today I’d driven for around 40 minutes on the A1, and battery was at 50%. Result was half the rate when I’d done no prep :-/ 30kW today instead of the 60 I got Thursday. So the mystery remains.
Well so much for my theory then :? I'm planning on running another charge test this week.

I'm currently running a range test which is not looking great. I've done only 57 miles of slow city driving and already down to 53%. :shock: . I have had the AC on and pre heated the car a few times so that will have something to do with it but its been pretty cold so...

NorwichComputersAndy
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:42 pm

Re: What’s Up with the charging speeds ?

Post by NorwichComputersAndy » Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:16 am

I think the cold certainly is making a difference on range. It will impact the batteries performance however add lights and heating and it will make a huge difference.

When I purchased my ID one of the factors was we had to be able to get from Norwich to Kent on a charge - which in the summer would be fine however I think we may have to make a quick stop at a super charger - However we usually stop for coffee / loo break for the daughter so it won’t impact too much.

I will still be happy paying a couple of pounds a charge from home for the daily slog round Norwich - I am quite lucky that quite a few of my clients either have free electric hookups or are located near free ones in the city.

From the YouTube vids of range test when the temps were 15-20 degrees most exceeded the advertised range though - fingers crossed we will eventually get the same 👍

(Bloody weather! 🤣🇬🇧)

Jel
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:58 pm

Re: What’s Up with the charging speeds ?

Post by Jel » Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:20 am

This video explains the charging speeds of the ID3 (and most EVs) well. Once the HV battery is charged over 50% the charing speeds will drop quite a bit which seems normal for most EVs. Anything below 50% charge amount and you should get the maximum charge rate from the charging point.

( )

Jel
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:58 pm

Re: What’s Up with the charging speeds ?

Post by Jel » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:18 am

So charged the car again this morning starting at 25% charge on a 150kW charging point so it should be outputting a 100kW charge to the ID3 but the charging point display showed that it was only pushing out 50kW to the car and I was getting 25% charge in 15mins which equals around 50kW.

I have a "Pro" version of the ID3 which is listed at excepting a 100kW fast charging speed max so if I'm not getting what I paid for VW are going to hear about it.

HeidiFlowerpt Driver
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:30 pm

Re: What’s Up with the charging speeds ?

Post by HeidiFlowerpt Driver » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:04 pm

As I understand it, there are a number of factors that influence charging speed. One is how many other vehicles are charging at the same location. Some locations have load sharing which reduces the power as necessary to avoid overloading the supply. Another is the ambient temperature. Another is the EV battery protection circuitry. Check out this: https://ev-database.uk/img/fastcharge/1 ... eCurve.png from the ID.3 page at EV-Database UK. On a 50kW charger the ID.3 will take its full output up to about 80%, after which the current delivery drops off progressively to protect the battery. On a 150kW charger the full 100kW that the ID.3 can accept will only be delivered up to about 30%, after which the current drops progressively. At about 70% the delivery is down to about 50kW.

It turns out that Lithium Ion batteries are worn out not so much by using them as by charging them to 100% at high speed. That's why VW recommend charging to 80% and it's why charging beyond that slows down. The same principle applies to mobile phones. If you usually charge your phone to 80% - and there are apps that help you do this - your phone's battery will last longer. Mine is over three years old and the battery has 91% of its original capacity.
ID.3 1st Edition Manganese Grey - called Heidi Flowerpot

Jel
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:58 pm

Re: What’s Up with the charging speeds ?

Post by Jel » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:53 pm

HeidiFlowerpot wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:04 pm
As I understand it, there are a number of factors that influence charging speed. One is how many other vehicles are charging at the same location. Some locations have load sharing which reduces the power as necessary to avoid overloading the supply. Another is the ambient temperature. Another is the EV battery protection circuitry. Check out this: https://ev-database.uk/img/fastcharge/1 ... eCurve.png from the ID.3 page at EV-Database UK. On a 50kW charger the ID.3 will take its full output up to about 80%, after which the current delivery drops off progressively to protect the battery. On a 150kW charger the full 100kW that the ID.3 can accept will only be delivered up to about 30%, after which the current drops progressively. At about 70% the delivery is down to about 50kW.

It turns out that Lithium Ion batteries are worn out not so much by using them as by charging them to 100% at high speed. That's why VW recommend charging to 80% and it's why charging beyond that slows down. The same principle applies to mobile phones. If you usually charge your phone to 80% - and there are apps that help you do this - your phone's battery will last longer. Mine is over three years old and the battery has 91% of its original capacity.
Hi HeidiFlowerpot,

Thanks for your replay. All good points you have made and to answer a few of them.

- The was only one charing point so no other cars where charging
- I started charging at 24% but the charging rate was never above 50kW
- I have only ever charged to 100% once to test the range and all other times to 80%
- I have dealt with lithium batteries for around 10 years now and have a good understanding of what they like and don't like.

Which comes down to the ambient temperature and the temperature of the batteries themselves. My next test will be to drive on a motorway to try to warm the batteries and see what the charge rate is then.

scott28tt
Posts: 778
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:34 pm

Re: What’s Up with the charging speeds ?

Post by scott28tt » Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:28 pm

I'm told that driving for 30 minutes before you start helps, and starting the charge below 20% (the lower the better)
ID.3 1st Edition - Moonstone Grey

RDR
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:28 pm

Re: What’s Up with the charging speeds ?

Post by RDR » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:53 pm

Having had BMW I3's since their launch I gave up years ago trying to scientifically work out the parameters required to achieve a BEVs max charging rate it gave me a headache. I became obsessed and slightly irritated by it as it became clear Environment, vehicle status, charger status and load balancing all impact the charge rate so I gave up and just went with it. On occasion I would catch it charging at max rate but 95% of the time it was less. Haven't tried our ID3 on a rapid yet but I expect it will be as similar experience.

On range I'm totally ignoring the ID3's as with my previous BEVS the GOM (Guess Ometer) was never accurate for the first 1000k of driving or after a reset it needed to learn the battery characteristics and the driving style/pattern I expect the ID3 will be similar.

Jel
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:58 pm

Re: What’s Up with the charging speeds ?

Post by Jel » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:06 pm

RDR wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:53 pm
Having had BMW I3's since their launch I gave up years ago trying to scientifically work out the parameters required to achieve a BEVs max charging rate it gave me a headache. I became obsessed and slightly irritated by it as it became clear Environment, vehicle status, charger status and load balancing all impact the charge rate so I gave up and just went with it. On occasion I would catch it charging at max rate but 95% of the time it was less. Haven't tried our ID3 on a rapid yet but I expect it will be as similar experience.

On range I'm totally ignoring the ID3's as with my previous BEVS the GOM (Guess Ometer) was never accurate for the first 1000k of driving or after a reset it needed to learn the battery characteristics and the driving style/pattern I expect the ID3 will be similar.
Okay good to know from someone else's EV experience. Does anyone have any experience with Tesla's regarding maximum charging rate constancy ?

Post Reply