Cold weather is here - range hit

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hungerdunger
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Post by hungerdunger »

scott28tt wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:38 pm I'm glad I got my car just over a year ago, I've already experienced a BEV winter so now nothing comes as a surprise.
There's something to be said for buying your first EV in the middle of winter. After the initial disappointment with the actual range vs the advertised range, I could see things gradually getting better as the weather warmed, and at least we know what to expect for the next six months or so.
ID.3 1st Edition - Manganese Grey - purchased 15/12/20.

Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 »

hungerdunger wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:48 pm
scott28tt wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:38 pm I'm glad I got my car just over a year ago, I've already experienced a BEV winter so now nothing comes as a surprise.
the advertised range

I thought VW (like every other manufacturer) had to include WLTP in their literature/advertising… They all do it, for all types of vehicles regardless of the type of power unit.
hungerdunger
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Post by hungerdunger »

scott28tt wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:18 pm I thought VW (like every other manufacturer) had to include WLTP in their literature/advertising… They all do it, for all types of vehicles regardless of the type of power unit.
Yes they did, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. From memory I think the combined WLTP figure was 260 miles range on a full charge. In the first couple of months (Jan - March) we were getting in the region of 200 miles. We had realised that this figure would be lower in the winter because of increased use of heating, lights etc, but were still disappointed in the disparity. Perhaps we were being naive. Now we know we can achieve the expected range in the summer and know what to expect in the winter, we're really happy with the car.
ID.3 1st Edition - Manganese Grey - purchased 15/12/20.
Warminster id
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Post by Warminster id »

I’ve just done a 400 mile round trip with 2 passengers on Friday temp around 10’ with heaters on most of the time and got 3.9 kWh
Life pro performance grey/steels standard car
Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 »

hungerdunger wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:05 pm
scott28tt wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:18 pm I thought VW (like every other manufacturer) had to include WLTP in their literature/advertising… They all do it, for all types of vehicles regardless of the type of power unit.
Yes they did, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. From memory I think the combined WLTP figure was 260 miles range on a full charge. In the first couple of months (Jan - March) we were getting in the region of 200 miles. We had realised that this figure would be lower in the winter because of increased use of heating, lights etc, but were still disappointed in the disparity. Perhaps we were being naive. Now we know we can achieve the expected range in the summer and know what to expect in the winter, we're really happy with the car.

They re not selling the car any differently to any other they make, or that any other manufacturer makes. That’s all I meant.

I’ve read so many posts here and elsewhere in the last year where people take WLTP as some sort of promise or expectation, but VW (and all other manufacturers) have an obligation to publish that number.
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Andreas
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Post by Andreas »

Warminster id wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:48 am I’ve just done a 400 mile round trip with 2 passengers on Friday temp around 10’ with heaters on most of the time and got 3.9 kWh
Really surprised at these disparities. I have done 14 miles in city traffic last night with minimal heating and two adult passengers and got 3.1 m/kWh at 13 degrees.
——————
ID.3 Tour, manganese grey, bi-colour style, heat pump, otherwise standard. July 2021, London.
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Warminster id
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Post by Warminster id »

Andreas wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:00 am
Warminster id wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:48 am I’ve just done a 400 mile round trip with 2 passengers on Friday temp around 10’ with heaters on most of the time and got 3.9 kWh
Really surprised at these disparities. I have done 14 miles in city traffic last night with minimal heating and two adult passengers and got 3.1 m/kWh at 13 degrees.
My commute to work this morning 5am at 8’ of 21 miles gave me 4.9 mi/kwh
Life pro performance grey/steels standard car
monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Warminster id wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:48 am I’ve just done a 400 mile round trip with 2 passengers on Friday temp around 10’ with heaters on most of the time and got 3.9 kWh
If that was all doing 70mph on the motorway then that's exceptional, if mixed diving doing 40-60mph it's roughly as per my expectations. Could you tell us roughly how you were driving to get a bit of context? Was that ventilation heaters or pretty much just heated seats what temp did you heat the cabin to?
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Andreas wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:00 am
Warminster id wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:48 am I’ve just done a 400 mile round trip with 2 passengers on Friday temp around 10’ with heaters on most of the time and got 3.9 kWh
Really surprised at these disparities. I have done 14 miles in city traffic last night with minimal heating and two adult passengers and got 3.1 m/kWh at 13 degrees.
Means nothing without context (driving speed, cabin temp set to etc.). Personally, I don't think I could do 3.9 miles per kWh on a 400 mile journey maintaining 18C without sitting on a motorway doing no more than 60mph.
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Warminster id
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Post by Warminster id »

monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:26 am
Warminster id wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:48 am I’ve just done a 400 mile round trip with 2 passengers on Friday temp around 10’ with heaters on most of the time and got 3.9 kWh
If that was all doing 70mph on the motorway then that's exceptional, if mixed diving doing 40-60mph it's roughly as per my expectations. Could you tell us roughly how you were driving to get a bit of context? Was that ventilation heaters or pretty much just heated seats what temp did you heat the cabin to?
Warminster to March in Cambridgeshire mostly motorway and some A road speeds between 60-just over 70.
Heated to 20-22 degrees , but still felt cool so maybe a visit to the Gararge soon.
On high speed roads in D mode and lift and coast. Switch to B when slowing or in slow traffic
Also always looking ahead at the traffic so I can slow down or speed up gradually
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

The difference between driving at 60 and driving at 70 is pretty significant. Given the values quoted, I suspect it was 60mph most of the time, as both our ID3s in the Summer, with no heating or headlights we're just scraping 3.6 miles per kWh doing 70mph almost all the time. There's nothing between the 2 of them (seemingly far more variation between 2 identical ICE cars where how they were run.in is pretty important).

There used to be someone on the Golf GTI forum who was always posting about getting over 50mpg in his MK7.5 Golf GTI...he had a long commute (50 miles each way) and was pretty much driving everywhere at 55mph. No one else driving normally could get anywhere near those figures.
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Warminster id
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Post by Warminster id »

I had to do the same journey with and without passengers in September when it was warmer and was getting about 4.2 with not much use of the ventilation system.
My since start average for the last 3000 miles is 4.3 and the previous 5000 miles 4.5, I’ve had the car since May.
I’ve been driving for a long time both normal cars and sports cars and have learnt to drive economically and predicting the traffic flow ahead
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

Whilst I dont look forward to the cold mornings, having been thtough one Winter in the car already, I know what to expect and will have the heater on, enjoy my car, and charge more frequently.
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Warminster id wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:31 pm I’ve had the car since May.
I’ve been driving for a long time both normal cars and sports cars and have learnt to drive economically and predicting the traffic flow ahead
Pretty much ditto for all the above, and I do have an economic driving style relative to the speed I'm looking to achieve. I do anticipate the road ahead well to preserve momentum and minimise braking - my local dealership always used to be puzzled at the slow rate of wear on the brake discs and pads of my cars. That method of driving does give lower economy dividends than ICE cars though, as a fair proportion of your braking is via regen with the ID3 if driving economically (lack of brake dust on the wheels is a real testament to that). I also use recirculation with the A/C to minimise waste there.

Even so, in the Summer, if I'm sat on the A1/M1 and maintaining 70mph for 200 miles as part of a longer journey (Newcastle to Southampton), the car is tending towards 3.4 miles per kWh and all the mixed roads afterwards bring it up to about 3.6, with an ambient temp of around 18-20C.

I could not do those same miles on the Motorway and get to 4+ miles per kWh unless I was maintaining 60-62 mph.
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Daveion wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:42 pm Whilst I dont look forward to the cold mornings, having been thtough one Winter in the car already, I know what to expect and will have the heater on, enjoy my car, and charge more frequently.
It's just a pain on the longer trips, where range is a higher priority than economy (even though the 2 are intrinsically linked). I'll be doing 350 miles between Newcastle and Southampton tomorrow morning with a 6am start and 3 passengers.
Last edited by monkeyhanger on Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Audi S3 - because I hate rapid charging for long distance driving.

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Post by Deleted User 192 »

Daveion wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:42 pm Whilst I dont look forward to the cold mornings, having been thtough one Winter in the car already, I know what to expect and will have the heater on, enjoy my car, and charge more frequently.

Sounds like an excellent plan 👍
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Post by Deleted User 192 »

monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:01 pm
Daveion wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:42 pm Whilst I dont look forward to the cold mornings, having been thtough one Winter in the car already, I know what to expect and will have the heater on, enjoy my car, and charge more frequently.
It's just a pain on the longer trips, where range is a higher priority than economy (even though the 2 are intrinsically linked). I'll be doing 250 miles between Newcastle and Southampton tomorrow morning with a 6am start and 3 passengers.

If I need to make a stop anyway, I would rather drive at a natural speed and stop for an extra couple of minutes to get the % back to the level I want.
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Post by Warminster id »

I don’t tend to do 70 for long periods and my speed is continually changing so average speed will be lower than 70, and in an EV the economy is better in heavier traffic which I love when I’m surrounded by ice cars guzzling fuel and getting no where lol
Same here with the brakes I had a fiat tipo 1.3 diesel for a couple of years and didn’t have to change the discs I got 70 mpg from that one on average ( surprised even myself)
I am a bit of a nerd when driving ( most of the time tbh) I even apex corners and roundabouts when safe
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

scott28tt wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:07 pm
monkeyhanger wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:01 pm
Daveion wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:42 pm Whilst I dont look forward to the cold mornings, having been thtough one Winter in the car already, I know what to expect and will have the heater on, enjoy my car, and charge more frequently.
It's just a pain on the longer trips, where range is a higher priority than economy (even though the 2 are intrinsically linked). I'll be doing 250 miles between Newcastle and Southampton tomorrow morning with a 6am start and 3 passengers.

If I need to make a stop anyway, I would rather drive at a natural speed and stop for an extra couple of minutes to get the % back to the level I want.
I meant to say 350 miles. I would do as you do - it would drive me mad to be sat at 60mph on the motorway in the middle of all the 60mph trucks trying to overtake each other at 1mph differentials in an effort to eke out an extra 15 miles range.
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LordMouldySort
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Post by LordMouldySort »

I will take delivery next week so I haven't even tried mine yet. I checked worst/best case scenarios for the 58kW version. WLTP is quoted as 264 miles and measured as 155 miles at a constant 70 at -10 degrees so that's what I'll be assuming my worst case scenario is.
Are people using the B or D drive option? Or do you change between motorways and town driving?
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