I'm a bit worried about the range

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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

hwhbev wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:04 pm
simonrg wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:43 pm If you look at the blue and green lines on the driver display, you will see when you first get in, they are a lot shorter than when the batteries are warm. you can tell when the batteries are warm enough when these two lines are back to full length. The car is restricting acceleration hence blue line shorter and regen hence green line is shorter, as the battery would be damaged if power was drained or replenished at full rate until warm.

I've just seen these shorter blue & green lines for the first time today. It's -0.5ºC outside and the car had not been charging. The lines started at about two-thirds their normal length and increased over time as the batteries warmed up. I noticed that the green line lengthened quicker than the blue. This is probably because the max current available with regen is much less than the max current used to accelerate so regen reaches its full capability sooner.

Thanks simonrg for bringing this to our attention.
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

simonrg and hwhbev
Good share. Certainly helps me move up the learning curve.
Dave
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Electrovert
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Post by Electrovert »

Daveion wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:35 am WLTP set the criterion to which the Manufacturer tests and publishes its results/claims.
It has to be at a temperature range that represents the maximum coverage of where the product is to be used and seasonal averages. 15C-23C sounds reasonable to me for European use.
We know battery peformance and range reduces at temperatures below this not least with battery heating requirement and cabin heating as added loads. Short journeys I know to my cost result in more frequent charging and actually not a lot different from an ICE in that respect as fuel consumption in both petrol and diesel are less until the engine reaches optimal operating temperature.
On various threads, if correct, battery heating and cabin heating can account for as much as 14kw of total load near to zero ambient. That is a big percentage of the battery capacity that is taken out of the range.
Anxiety will pass as soon as you get some runs in over 11C or 12C but in the meantine the Beast from the East will hit your range.
I would agree with the above from Daveion. Had my car for over a week and have certainly learned a lot by reading some of the threads (bedtime reading!). The cold weather hasn't been a great intro to electric cars for me, BUT I do love the car! I wasn't pre-heating/preconditioning it before, and now by doing this its restored some faith in the range - still not brilliant, but not as bad as I had thought initially. And as mentioned above, this range anxiety will tend to reduce as the weather improves. Glass half full, even if the battery is emptying! :)
OllyExeterID3
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Post by OllyExeterID3 »

Electrovert wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:24 pm
Daveion wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:35 am WLTP set the criterion to which the Manufacturer tests and publishes its results/claims.
It has to be at a temperature range that represents the maximum coverage of where the product is to be used and seasonal averages. 15C-23C sounds reasonable to me for European use.
We know battery peformance and range reduces at temperatures below this not least with battery heating requirement and cabin heating as added loads. Short journeys I know to my cost result in more frequent charging and actually not a lot different from an ICE in that respect as fuel consumption in both petrol and diesel are less until the engine reaches optimal operating temperature.
On various threads, if correct, battery heating and cabin heating can account for as much as 14kw of total load near to zero ambient. That is a big percentage of the battery capacity that is taken out of the range.
Anxiety will pass as soon as you get some runs in over 11C or 12C but in the meantine the Beast from the East will hit your range.
I would agree with the above from Daveion. Had my car for over a week and have certainly learned a lot by reading some of the threads (bedtime reading!). The cold weather hasn't been a great intro to electric cars for me, BUT I do love the car! I wasn't pre-heating/preconditioning it before, and now by doing this its restored some faith in the range - still not brilliant, but not as bad as I had thought initially. And as mentioned above, this range anxiety will tend to reduce as the weather improves. Glass half full, even if the battery is emptying! :)
Agree with Electrovert - and as you get used to the quirks of the 'guess-o-meter' and do more frequent journeys, that anxiety will melt away. I was obsessed when I had my first EV of topping it up to 100%, get worried when I had a 100 mile journey but the estimated range was 91.... I never got stuck or broke down - mainly because that anxiety helped me plan my journey. Then, as I realised actually how much you can eke out of an EV, I started to get more and more relaxed, getting to chargers with less than 10% left and knowing where there were 4 more chargers just in case. It turns into a pretty cool game, to get every last electron out of it. And I am pretty sure it improves your driving style too.

Also massively agree, I do love this car! Lockdown has meant no real long journeys since before Christmas - but I am always grinning when we do take a trip!
ColinID3
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Post by ColinID3 »

Just a thought to ponder when we are considering range:-
> 60kWhr is equivalent to the available energy from a modern ICE burning c.15ltr of Petrol.
> 15ltr will give you c. 200 miles range at 60mpg, or 132 miles at 40 mpg - roughly the upper and lower ends of our real world ID3 ranges.
> Our cars are 40% heavier and nearly 10% larger frontal area than a Golf (though they do have a very slippery shape)
> In comparison our last petrol Golf gave us a little over 50 mpg on mild weather long runs but under 30 mpg in winter on short city trips
We just need to think that we only have 80% of 15ltrs in the tank when we setting range expectations!!
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simonrg
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Post by simonrg »

ColinID3 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:34 am Just a thought to ponder when we are considering range:-
> 60kWhr is equivalent to the available energy from a modern ICE burning c.15ltr of Petrol.
> 15ltr will give you c. 200 miles range at 60mpg, or 132 miles at 40 mpg - roughly the upper and lower ends of our real world ID3 ranges.
> Our cars are 40% heavier and nearly 10% larger frontal area than a Golf (though they do have a very slippery shape)
> In comparison our last petrol Golf gave us a little over 50 mpg on mild weather long runs but under 30 mpg in winter on short city trips
We just need to think that we only have 80% of 15ltrs in the tank when we setting range expectations!!
Good point, however you also need to take into account efficiency of converting the potential energy in the stored fuel into kinetic energy of moving the vehicle, an ICE is only about 20-40% efficient (with a lot of wasted heat), whereas an EV's engine should be around 80% efficient (with no wasted heat).
So your argument is still correct, but 60kWh battery is equivalent to 30litres, so at 30mpg in winter we could expect to get less than 150miles and at 50mpg in summer less than 300miles.
ICE does have a hit from short journeys as the engine is less efficient when cold, but it doesn't have to burn extra fuel to heat the car or the battery, so lots of short journeys in an EV will have a bigger hit on EV range.
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digital
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Post by digital »

Some encouraging news on charging within the article at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/supp ... lion-boost

More charging points, easier to pay and faster repairs.
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Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 »

We can all worry less once the temperature averages above 13 degrees, seeing as that’s the temperature to which the car tries to heat the batteries to every time you start it.

In other words, til spring I’m accepting that my range will be a lot lower than any real world figures I may see quoted (not WLTP)
Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 »

digital wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:06 am Some encouraging news on charging within the article at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/supp ... lion-boost

More charging points, easier to pay and faster repairs.

I do hope people who CAN have their own point installed at home DO - otherwise more and more of my tax receipts will go towards subsiding others even though I paid 600 quid to have my own point.
Bromsgroveuser
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Post by Bromsgroveuser »

I have an id3 First . 3 months old and 1060 miles on clock because of current situation . The long range shows 2.5 miles per Kilowatt whish if I'm correct gives a real world range of approx 150 miles . Got to admit if I'd known this was going to be the case I would have thought long and hard before buying it . It still has the original software which is lacking in ability . also the only thing the app on my phone lets me do is turn the heating on and off . I also have a free wecharge card which gives £500 or 2000kw of free electricity only problem is there are only 10 Ionity chargers in the Uk for the 2000kw and none anywhere near me and if use use any of the rare chargers that accept the card Wecharge then add another charge on top which makes it expensive electricity . Another example of VW bending the truth to suit them
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Post by Deleted User 192 »

Bromsgroveuser wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:02 pm I also have a free wecharge card which gives £500 or 2000kw of free electricity only problem is there are only 10 Ionity chargers in the Uk for the 2000kw and none anywhere near me and if use use any of the rare chargers that accept the card Wecharge then add another charge on top which makes it expensive electricity

None of these We Charge partners got charge points in your area?

IONITY
Charge Point Services Ltd
New Motion
Osprey
Elmtronics Ltd
ESB Group
Alfa Power

I’ve used more than £120 of my credit at a local Osprey point.

I don’t care that there’s a premium on top of the regular provider’s fee - I’m just burning through the credit then I’ll stop using We Charge.
Bromsgroveuser
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Post by Bromsgroveuser »

As i said ionity are few and far between the nearest to me is 134 miles away , the nearest osprey is 10 miles away , i have used it several times but wecharge add a load on top which means they add almost a third to the cost reducing the value of the free card
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Post by Deleted User 192 »

There’s no IONITY near me either, the Osprey is 50kW and works perfectly every time.

I’m just happy to have somewhere to use the credit rather than it going to waste, even if there is a premium charge.

For every 40kW I add to my car with the Osprey it costs me £18 of my credit but saves me from adding £5.50 to my electricity bill, so while it’s not efficient it will still save me over £150 if I continue with this regime over the course of the 12 months.

And the credit benefit becomes greater once I’m able to resume longer journeys and would be needing to use public chargers en route anyway.
hungerdunger
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Post by hungerdunger »

scott28tt wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:17 pm
None of these We Charge partners got charge points in your area?

IONITY
Charge Point Services Ltd
New Motion
Osprey
Elmtronics Ltd
ESB Group
Alfa Power
I think I may have completely misunderstood how the We Charge card works.

When I set the filter in the We Connect app to show me We Charge chargers, not all the providers you've listed show up.

For example, we have an Osprey about 6 miles from here, but I haven't used it as I didn't realise it could be used with the WeCharge card as it doesn't show up on the map.

Also, if I set the filters to show RFID authentication but not We Charge, then a couple of Engenie chargers show up locally. Does this mean I can use my We Charge card's credit on them too?

I'd be interested to know where you got your list from, and also whether there is a guide to all this somewhere. Certainly the dealer didn't explain it at all at hand over.
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Post by Deleted User 192 »

hungerdunger wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 3:36 pm I think I may have completely misunderstood how the We Charge card works.

When I set the filter in the We Connect app to show me We Charge chargers, not all the providers you've listed show up.

For example, we have an Osprey about 6 miles from here, but I haven't used it as I didn't realise it could be used with the WeCharge card as it doesn't show up on the map.

Also, if I set the filters to show RFID authentication but not We Charge, then a couple of Engenie chargers show up locally. Does this mean I can use my We Charge card's credit on them too?

I'd be interested to know where you got your list from, and also whether there is a guide to all this somewhere. Certainly the dealer didn't explain it at all at hand over.

The Osprey I am using does show up in the app - the only filter I have set is the We Charge one (no connector or authentication filters)

You can absolutely use your We Charge credit at Osprey, which is the brand name of Engenie now - that’s the only place I’ve used my card so far.

That list came directly from Elli, the company who run We Charge.

I haven’t used any of the other providers on the list, but you should just be able park up and scan your We Charge card on the RFID panel on the charge point.
Bromsgroveuser
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Post by Bromsgroveuser »

More problems , my wecharge card has stopped working at the osprey charger i have been using for 3 months , e mailed elli who told me it wasn't on their map and proceeded to tell me how to use the map as if i was an idiot , have replied with copies of their invoices showing it on there also screenshots off the app showing jt , given all the problems with software and range i am having i am getting close to rejecting the car, has anyone else had this problem with the card
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New car Ioniq 5 Premium 72 kw
Jaysson
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Post by Jaysson »

Hello all! I took delivery of my Tour two weeks ago and generally love it.

I too am surprised with the range available - I absolutely accept the point around cold weather, auxiliaries and journey types and driving style.

See this latest charge report, appalling give. It’s the 77kwh battery pack!

No response from dealer yet...

8DDC8526-364F-458E-B5A1-AEC41A13A28B.png

hwhbev
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Post by hwhbev »

I assume it says the same range on the display in the car? This is the range you might expect from a 58kWh battery at 80%. Maybe there’s a software parameter that hasn’t been set correctly. One way to check is to drive it until it drops to 70% charge. If it does about 21 miles then it’s a 58kWh battery and if it does about 28 miles it’s a 77kWh battery.

Alternatively, as the range is calculated based on the most recent driving characteristics, have you been driving it hard recently?
Jaysson
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Post by Jaysson »

Thanks hwhbev - yes, the app and the car seem synchronised.

I’ll certainly try what you suggest. I’ll drive it today and see what we get for a 10% soc change.

I’ve used the car for a mix of driving - including a long run - 270 mile round trip. Of course cruising at motorway speeds will have eaten into the range, but a lot of the driving has been shortish trips with smallish throttle openings and using “B”.

Still love it anyway!
CarterHounslow
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Post by CarterHounslow »

Jaysson wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:27 pm Hello all! I took delivery of my Tour two weeks ago and generally love it.

I too am surprised with the range available - I absolutely accept the point around cold weather, auxiliaries and journey types and driving style.

See this latest charge report, appalling give. It’s the 77kwh battery pack!

No response from dealer yet...
That's how much my 58 kw/h says when charged to 80%. I'd call the dealer
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