Charge to 40% .. pause .. charge to 80%

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Tabletop
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:57 pm

Post by Tabletop »

I am on Octopus Go, get cheap rate between 00:30 and 04:30. We try to keep the charge between 40 and 80%.
I am controlling charging from car software (2.3) rather than home charger. Under home location in charge sub menu I have it set to charge between 00:30-04:30 and t9 stop if it gets to 80%. This works well.

My issue is that car often comes home in evening with charge under 40% and I would like to top it up to 40, which would be at higher tariff, then have it pause until 00:30 when the cheap tariff starts. In the charge/location there is an option to charge immediately to a user selected %, and I set the slider to 40% using the slider which allows choosing 0 to 50%. When I set this slider, the charge just keeps going past 40%.

Has anyone used this function successfully? I’m wondering if it’s the not so smart charger at issue. Plan to try it on the dumb granny charger tomorrow to test.

Thanks
SM

duckworthsj
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2021 4:07 pm

Post by duckworthsj »

You can set rules for charging in the infotainment system in addition to the ‘max charge level’
first you need to create a ‘charging location’ eg ‘Home’.
Then within this you can set your preferred charging times eg for off-peak rate.
Then very important ‘departure times’ . You can also set and change this as you want via the App on your phone
The charge system takes account of the departure time, the current level of charge, and the charging current.
It will start the charge to get to the 80% level at the scheduled departure.. If it needs to start before your ‘preferred times’ then it will do so.

In direct answer to you question: Yes it is possible that the charging starts immediately to reach your 40% minimum eg because your battery is at 20%; Then shuts down until it needs to start charging again to achieve the second target charge level eg 80% at the scheduled departure. If the charge rate can achieve the 80% target during your preferred charge times, then it will do so. If not it will start earlier of continue longer.
In the App you can decide to change this departure time and also the target charge level… eg because you plan got leave later or need 90% etc

Note it is approx. target. I have seen the system stop charging at 79% because it considers this good enough.
Hers: ID3 204ch Pro Performance Denim Blue Black Roof. East Derry alloys, Pack Comfort Plus, Pack Assistance Plus.
His: Mini Cooper S-Electric 184ch ‘Yours’ (UK Level 3) Chili Red, Black Pack, Heat Reflective Windows… And lots of fun
Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 »

Good luck.

The in-car stuff is notoriously unreliable.
G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

I think you'll struggle to get this to work. The in-car scheduling is notoriously broken, it's one of the things VW are promising to fix in future software releases.
You can theoretically do what you want but it invariably fails. Usually there seems to be an issue with it only allowing a reduced charge.

As far as I am aware Departure times only control the cabin temps not the charging. It was probably supposed to control charging but it doesn't work for most people. WIth regards to the car 'thinking it's good enough' I am not sure I have ever seen any evidence the cars BMS thinks at all?
ItshardtobuyId3
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:53 pm

Post by ItshardtobuyId3 »

Tabletop wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:26 pm I am on Octopus Go, get cheap rate between 00:30 and 04:30. We try to keep the charge between 40 and 80%.
I am controlling charging from car software (2.3) rather than home charger. Under home location in charge sub menu I have it set to charge between 00:30-04:30 and t9 stop if it gets to 80%. This works well.

My issue is that car often comes home in evening with charge under 40% and I would like to top it up to 40, which would be at higher tariff, then have it pause until 00:30 when the cheap tariff starts. In the charge/location there is an option to charge immediately to a user selected %, and I set the slider to 40% using the slider which allows choosing 0 to 50%. When I set this slider, the charge just keeps going past 40%.

Has anyone used this function successfully? I’m wondering if it’s the not so smart charger at issue. Plan to try it on the dumb granny charger tomorrow to test.

Thanks
SM
If you have an Ohme charger you will eventually will be able to do this by setting a target of 80% for your departure time (via the Ohme app). The car will charge straight away then the charger calculates how long it will take at the cheap rate, stop short and finish in the cheap period. Unfortunately this only works with some cars like Tesla that have an api the charger and talk to the car with. It’s coming but not available for the ID3 yet :(
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SteveH
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Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:11 am

Post by SteveH »

G43FAN wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:35 am As far as I am aware Departure times only control the cabin temps not the charging. It was probably supposed to control charging but it doesn't work for most people.
The departure times seem to make charging a bit more aggressive for me - i.e. with it set to charge to 80% and no a departure time set the car gets to about 77% by the end of the preferred times and then stops, with a departure time set it starts charging a bit earlier and generally gets to 80%.

That said, the past few nights have been a mess and I'm not sure why: I had 2 nights where it just didn't charge at all, and last night it limited the charging power to 1KW (switching the charger off/on when I got out of bed caused it to restart at the full 7.6KW).

Oddly, now I'm using a 7KW charger, with no departure time set it seems to stick to the charging window whereas when I used to use a granny cable it would carry on charging past the end of the window.
Tabletop
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:57 pm

Post by Tabletop »

Thanks all. I’ve not used departure time at all. I’ve only used the home location with 4 hour period to match cheap tariff, and that has worked faultless. It was only when I’ve tried to set a top-up to 40% immediate that things have not worked as expected.

Have only just had the smart charger installed, and am now realising that I overlooked the ability of a charger to communicate with smart meter and car. My charger has very basic control, allows scheduling time periods to charge, it knows nothing of % SOC or when cheap tariffs are available. I wish I’d chosen a charger where supplier at least said they planned to their develop software for improved communication with smart meter and car.

In the ideal situation, I’d just plug in on getting home, charger would take it to 40% immediately, then talk to meter and take it to 80% as cheap tariff became available.
G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

Tabletop wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:57 pm Thanks all. I’ve not used departure time at all. I’ve only used the home location with 4 hour period to match cheap tariff, and that has worked faultless. It was only when I’ve tried to set a top-up to 40% immediate that things have not worked as expected.

Have only just had the smart charger installed, and am now realising that I overlooked the ability of a charger to communicate with smart meter and car. My charger has very basic control, allows scheduling time periods to charge, it knows nothing of % SOC or when cheap tariffs are available. I wish I’d chosen a charger where supplier at least said they planned to their develop software for improved communication with smart meter and car.

In the ideal situation, I’d just plug in on getting home, charger would take it to 40% immediately, then talk to meter and take it to 80% as cheap tariff became available.
I don't think any charger on the market can access the cars SoC directly via any API yet. I have a Zappi and an OHME and they can't, it's as much a VW issue as the charger manufacturers.
Another issue with the ID is that if you connect up a charger the car sees that as the session beginning, if the charger then starts and stops a couple of times (seems to vary a bit) then the car thinks there's an issue with the charger and you get a red light. It's an ongoing with PV charging on the Zappi as if it's slightly cloudy and your available power drops below 1.4kW intermittently the charger stops and starts, but eventually the car will see it as a faulty charge session and you have to restart.
ItshardtobuyId3
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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:53 pm

Post by ItshardtobuyId3 »

G43FAN wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:15 pm
Tabletop wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:57 pm Thanks all. I’ve not used departure time at all. I’ve only used the home location with 4 hour period to match cheap tariff, and that has worked faultless. It was only when I’ve tried to set a top-up to 40% immediate that things have not worked as expected.

Have only just had the smart charger installed, and am now realising that I overlooked the ability of a charger to communicate with smart meter and car. My charger has very basic control, allows scheduling time periods to charge, it knows nothing of % SOC or when cheap tariffs are available. I wish I’d chosen a charger where supplier at least said they planned to their develop software for improved communication with smart meter and car.

In the ideal situation, I’d just plug in on getting home, charger would take it to 40% immediately, then talk to meter and take it to 80% as cheap tariff became available.
I don't think any charger on the market can access the cars SoC directly via any API yet. I have a Zappi and an OHME and they can't, it's as much a VW issue as the charger manufacturers.
Another issue with the ID is that if you connect up a charger the car sees that as the session beginning, if the charger then starts and stops a couple of times (seems to vary a bit) then the car thinks there's an issue with the charger and you get a red light. It's an ongoing with PV charging on the Zappi as if it's slightly cloudy and your available power drops below 1.4kW intermittently the charger stops and starts, but eventually the car will see it as a faulty charge session and you have to restart.
That will make implementing intelligent Octopus with the ID3 tricky then. I read that can turn on or off the charger up to every 15 during the charge period!

I hope they sort an API out soon. Intelligent is a lot cheaper than GO for newer customers.
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duckworthsj
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Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2021 4:07 pm

Post by duckworthsj »

G43FAN wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:35 am I think you'll struggle to get this to work. The in-car scheduling is notoriously broken, it's one of the things VW are promising to fix in future software releases.
You can theoretically do what you want but it invariably fails. Usually there seems to be an issue with it only allowing a reduced charge.

As far as I am aware Departure times only control the cabin temps not the charging. It was probably supposed to control charging but it doesn't work for most people. WIth regards to the car 'thinking it's good enough' I am not sure I have ever seen any evidence the cars BMS thinks at all?
Based on some experiments I did, departure time setting does play a role on when charging starts and finishes.
With a home charger limited at 7.8KWH, I am convinced that there is a calculation going on based on initial charge level….
However totally agree there are issues with syncing the app and the car infotainment. I always verify that what I have set up on the App is exactly what the car infotainment tells me.


The ‘thinking it’s good enough’ was just my explanation why it stops at 78% or 79% when 80% is programmed. Or is there another explanation ?
Hers: ID3 204ch Pro Performance Denim Blue Black Roof. East Derry alloys, Pack Comfort Plus, Pack Assistance Plus.
His: Mini Cooper S-Electric 184ch ‘Yours’ (UK Level 3) Chili Red, Black Pack, Heat Reflective Windows… And lots of fun
SteveH
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:11 am

Post by SteveH »

duckworthsj wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:08 pm With a home charger limited at 7.8KWH, I am convinced that there is a calculation going on based on initial charge level….
There's definitely a calculation based on the initial charge level. It always seems to try to finish the charge at the end of the charge window, so the lower the SoC the earlier it will start charging. That makes some sense when there is a departure time set - charging close to the departure time will get some warmth into the battery before you start out. In my experience, on a 7.6KW charger without a departure time set it falls about 3% short of the target charge by the end of the charging window and on a granny charger it's a total mess.
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