The reason I / you decided on the ID.3

All Volkswagen ID.3 related discussions
Scratch
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Post by Scratch »

G43FAN wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:02 pm
Scratch wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 10:13 am Thanks for all the comments - keep them coming.
Could I just re-ask my point about the efficiency of the ID.3, bearing in mind it was built from the ground up.
I'm not sure what you are asking?
Do you mean was the efficiency a factor in me buying the car, then no.. Range was a factor but efficiency not really.
Ground up built wasn't really a factor other than it's obviously got some differences over an electrified Golf or some other ICE. As Utumno says, it could have been a poor build (and is in some eyes).

You mention Volkswagen's deceit and you mention efficiency, was efficiency really a factor for your purchase decision? At the end of the day range is what matters to most people. It could have been 10 miles/kWh but if it had a 5kWh battery I wouldn't see it selling. With regards to previous VW issues, I'll be honest I find it difficult to believe that so many people are now 'outraged' because they were deceived over the emissions. I would be willing to bet that had you asked the same people before the matter became public they would struggle to tell you what the emissions figures were. (Not all but most).

I'm not condoning VW (and the other manufacturers) but the only time I thought about emissions was when looking at Road Tax bands.
“ I'm not sure what you are asking? ”
Just conversation and interest really. Nothing sinister. As a relative nooby to the EV world, I am trying to take on board other’s opinions in order to clarify mine.
I tentatively followed the marketing of the ID range from when VW first showed the artist’s impressions of the concept car. Don’t get me wrong, I really like this car. It has faults but so do they all.

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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Scratch wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 4:21 pm
G43FAN wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:02 pm
Scratch wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 10:13 am Thanks for all the comments - keep them coming.
Could I just re-ask my point about the efficiency of the ID.3, bearing in mind it was built from the ground up.
I'm not sure what you are asking?
Do you mean was the efficiency a factor in me buying the car, then no.. Range was a factor but efficiency not really.
Ground up built wasn't really a factor other than it's obviously got some differences over an electrified Golf or some other ICE. As Utumno says, it could have been a poor build (and is in some eyes).

You mention Volkswagen's deceit and you mention efficiency, was efficiency really a factor for your purchase decision? At the end of the day range is what matters to most people. It could have been 10 miles/kWh but if it had a 5kWh battery I wouldn't see it selling. With regards to previous VW issues, I'll be honest I find it difficult to believe that so many people are now 'outraged' because they were deceived over the emissions. I would be willing to bet that had you asked the same people before the matter became public they would struggle to tell you what the emissions figures were. (Not all but most).

I'm not condoning VW (and the other manufacturers) but the only time I thought about emissions was when looking at Road Tax bands.
“ I'm not sure what you are asking? ”
Just conversation and interest really. Nothing sinister. As a relative nooby to the EV world, I am trying to take on board other’s opinions in order to clarify mine.
I tentatively followed the marketing of the ID range from when VW first showed the artist’s impressions of the concept car. Don’t get me wrong, I really like this car. It has faults but so do they all.

I tend to find people conflate range and efficiency. The people who talk about efficiency tend to have an engineering background, and the people who talk about range are much more normal 😂

The conflation happens because for the same usable battery size the more efficient vehicle will most likely have a longer range...
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

Utumno wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:49 pm
Scratch wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 4:21 pm
G43FAN wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:02 pm

I'm not sure what you are asking?
Do you mean was the efficiency a factor in me buying the car, then no.. Range was a factor but efficiency not really.
Ground up built wasn't really a factor other than it's obviously got some differences over an electrified Golf or some other ICE. As Utumno says, it could have been a poor build (and is in some eyes).

You mention Volkswagen's deceit and you mention efficiency, was efficiency really a factor for your purchase decision? At the end of the day range is what matters to most people. It could have been 10 miles/kWh but if it had a 5kWh battery I wouldn't see it selling. With regards to previous VW issues, I'll be honest I find it difficult to believe that so many people are now 'outraged' because they were deceived over the emissions. I would be willing to bet that had you asked the same people before the matter became public they would struggle to tell you what the emissions figures were. (Not all but most).

I'm not condoning VW (and the other manufacturers) but the only time I thought about emissions was when looking at Road Tax bands.
“ I'm not sure what you are asking? ”
Just conversation and interest really. Nothing sinister. As a relative nooby to the EV world, I am trying to take on board other’s opinions in order to clarify mine.
I tentatively followed the marketing of the ID range from when VW first showed the artist’s impressions of the concept car. Don’t get me wrong, I really like this car. It has faults but so do they all.

I tend to find people conflate range and efficiency. The people who talk about efficiency tend to have an engineering background, and the people who talk about range are much more normal 😂

The conflation happens because for the same usable battery size the more efficient vehicle will most likely have a longer range...
As an Engineer I'm not offended.
The work you have done on the spreadsheet keeps you in a sound position. Without it we would be trying to platt fog!
As for efficiency. I hope people understand range and efficiency are completely different but maybe you are right 😊
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Grumps
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Post by Grumps »

I needed a car that would either cost less on fuel for the same mileage, or the ability to be out and about more for same cost.
I chose electric as I have recently become a grandparent and am started to think about their future, and it also fulfilled the fuel costs.
The Id3 was a great price when I ordered. And it has so many toys.

After recent test driving a Kona and another drive of an id3 I managed to achieve 4.7 miles/Kwh in Kona and 4.6 in id3 over same 30 mile run (mix of b roads , one a road and urban, no duel carriage way).
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Sanya
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Post by Sanya »

I needed a more practical hatch to replace my BMW i3 and refused to have an SUV. Having tested the Stellantis models I realised I preferred a ground up EV as the packaging is superior and not compromised.
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turntoport
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Post by turntoport »

Uphamid3: we have an e; they are brilliant to drive (better than the ID3). If you don't often need a working range of more than 80 miles (to give some everyday battery margin longevity), then they are fine. The driver ui is far better than the id3, too. There is a slight concern that it might cause an accident, due to rubbernecking 'wotsats?'

Having written that, we're also acquiring an id3 for the longer trips, having er, 'poor' experiences of the total shambles of an unregulated shitpile known as the 'public charger network'. However, as the id3 order might not turn-up until next winter (or maybe even next year), the e is providing a great driving experience.
good luck whatever you choose. - ttp
Uphamid3
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Post by Uphamid3 »

Thanks turntoport - it’s really interesting to hear your real-life experiences and impressions of the Honda e. As I mentioned, I have an id3 on order and it should have been delivered this month, March 2022. The last update I received suggested that it was not likely to commence the build process until this Autumn, with delivery possibly around Christmas or early next year.

The long wait has given me time to re-evaluate my needs. I’ve sold the office and I’m now working from home, so now I’m typically driving around 20 miles per week on average. I’m incredibly lucky to live in national park, so I lot of my free time is spent walking/running rather than driving. Of course there are occasional longer journeys, but these are usually round trips of around 50 - 75 miles. Really long trips are normally undertaken by train/plane. Motorway journeys are infrequent, I haven’t needed to use a motorway since last summer! I also own a classic car which means that leisure trips are divided between two cars.

So, on paper, the Honda is looking like a more sensible choice perhaps, especially as I would like to replace my existing car this summer at the latest, and taking delivery of the id3 around Christmas if it were to be at that time, would be exceptionally inconvenient.
turntoport
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Post by turntoport »

Uphamid3; for perspective, the '80 miles working range' is exactly that, in winter. But if you want max range then the wltp 135-ish should be achievable; the 80 figure is 'battery conservation' mode, i.e. not maximally charging or discharging below 30-40%. SInce winter ended (a few days ago) the range-guess-o-meter has taken a leap up towards 150+ miles, but that wouldn't be achieved on 'fast' roads, i.e. at 60+mph, where the greater drag coefficient of the e incurs some energy costs, or when pressed hard, We are (hopefully) getting an id3 'cause our two sets of grandkids all live outside e-range, otherwise it would be 'no contest', tbh.
atb - ttp
eirofarr
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Post by eirofarr »

We're a fan of VW, I have a 1971 VW beetle and MK7.5 Golf R, My Wife a VW Tiguan. We decided to replace the Tiguan. Typically buy new and keep our cars for around 10 years. We have a larger dog, so need a boot suitable.
Tesla was attractive but, model 3, not great for a dog. model Y too expensive and wasn't released at the time.
we looked at the Mazda MX30, but the battery or the range was very limited and feared that after 10 years wouldn't be of any value.
ID4 was too big. My wife doesn't often travel more than 20 miles from the house, so we saw the ID3 as being the perfect solution.
Abrazil338
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Post by Abrazil338 »

Cheapest car on our work scheme. Would have easily taken an Ioniq 5 or an EV6 instead but damn they were expensive. Big fan of Korean cars. Way better built and value than VW. Cheap ass Germans.
gailjon
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Post by gailjon »

Abrazil338 wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:05 pm Cheapest car on our work scheme. Would have easily taken an Ioniq 5 or an EV6 instead but damn they were expensive. Big fan of Korean cars. Way better built and value than VW. Cheap ass Germans.
But the EV^ and the Ioniq 5 are both far more expensive than an ID3 so I am not sure where the better value and 'cheap ass' Germans comment comes from.

Are you not a 'cheap ass' for going for the cheapest car on your scheme?
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Abrazil338
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Post by Abrazil338 »

Edited
Last edited by Abrazil338 on Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
MattgID3
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Post by MattgID3 »

Cost for me, i have a fantastic deal through my company and with very low BIK its a very attractive option.
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Abrazil338
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Post by Abrazil338 »

Yep, for some reason VW offer huge discounts to fleet buyers. Hence why it's so cheap. Cannot complain about that. But the fact remains that its a cheap ass motor, suppose VW wanted some early mover advantage.

To make it clear, I don't dislike the ID3. It looks great for a start.
Dbaron
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Post by Dbaron »

Why I bought
1. Price
2. Compact size
3. Decent range
4. Designed as an EV
5. Lower insurance cost than Tesla (about £800 a year difference)
6. Ride quality (compared to other EVs)

Things that I'm not keen on but bought regardless

1. Dull interior
2. Haptic controls
3. Knowing it's a super heavy car, not enough use of aluminium or light weight materials. (Lighter means more efficient, better handling etc).
monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Using a fair bit of Aluminium doesn't save so much weight as the cancel out the weight of the battery array vs ICE drive train. Steel body panels are so thin now with hot pressing/annealing tech that even comparing the MK7 Golf R (all steel) to the Audi S3 (about 40% aluminium in the bodywork) only saved about 55kg, and there's 450kg additional weight in an ID3 vs a Golf GTI It's an EV thing rather than an ID3 thing
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G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

Dbaron wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:44 am
3. Knowing it's a super heavy car, not enough use of aluminium or light weight materials. (Lighter means more efficient, better handling etc).
I'd be interested in where you think the substitutions could be made, Aluminium would certainly drive the cost up and in many cases in order to achieve the same structural strength it requires a lot more material. Weight isn't particularly solely an ID.3 issue.

ID.3 2270kg
The Mazda MX30 is the same weight but has a 30kWh useable battery
The Mustang RWD SR has a 70kWh battery but weighs 2550kg
Kia Nero with a 64kWh comes in at 2200kg and is a comparable price.
Ioniq 5 2WD 2450kg
Hyundai Kona 2170kg
monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

G43FAN wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 12:42 pm
Dbaron wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:44 am
3. Knowing it's a super heavy car, not enough use of aluminium or light weight materials. (Lighter means more efficient, better handling etc).
I'd be interested in where you think the substitutions could be made, Aluminium would certainly drive the cost up and in many cases in order to achieve the same structural strength it requires a lot more material. Weight isn't particularly solely an ID.3 issue.

ID.3 2270kg
The Mazda MX30 is the same weight but has a 30kWh useable battery
The Mustang RWD SR has a 70kWh battery but weighs 2550kg
Kia Nero with a 64kWh comes in at 2200kg and is a comparable price.
Ioniq 5 2WD 2450kg
Hyundai Kona 2170kg
Where did you get that ID3 weight? Itsmuch lighter than that. 18012kg for 58kWh battery, unless you're quoting naxos including payload/full occupancy. Either weigh, all those EVs weigh a lot more than their ICE counterparts, as you say.
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OB1CCFC
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Post by OB1CCFC »

Yeah 2270kg is maximum fully loaded ‘safe’ weight.
EV database says ID3 1805kg unladen.
As comparison a new Niro EV is 1757kg
Megane etech 1711kg
So there might be some room for improvement …
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

OB1CCFC wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:12 pm Yeah 2270kg is maximum fully loaded ‘safe’ weight.
EV database says ID3 1805kg unladen.
As comparison a new Niro EV is 1757kg
Megane etech 1711kg
So there might be some room for improvement …
In the grand scheme of things, the whole car difference isn't a lot, we're talking 3-6%. Am I right in thinking that Kia use a slightly different battery chemistry to VW that makes for a lighter battery array, even though the rest of car itself isn't really made withh weight considerations in mind?
Last edited by monkeyhanger on Mon Jul 25, 2022 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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