Noob question regarding supercharger

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sb96
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:16 am

Post by sb96 »

Hi,

I recently got my ID3 and it's my first EV and I've a question regarding supercharging.

Yesterday I was driving on the highway and I had around 40% battery left, and I was near Ionity superchargers, so I thought I might as well stop there and get some juice.

It was around 1 degree outside, and I had been driving for about 50 minutes, but the car was only charging for about 36 kw/h. I thought it was going to be much higher, especially since it was an Ionity supercharging which supports up to 350kw/h(I know ID3 only supports up to 100kw/h).

But I thought maybe my car was cold, or the charger I was using was bad so I didn't think much more about it.

After finishing charging and getting on about my journey I was back at the charger roughly 2-3 hours later. This time I tried another charger(at the same Ionity station) and I was only getting about 37-42kw/h, even though I had 30% battery left.

The car behind me(a Hyundai something) was getting about 54 kw/h, so it doesn't seem to be any faulty charging.

Am I missing something regarding the supercharging?

Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 »

It can go up to 100 if your battery level is low enough, the battery temperature is high enough, the charger unit has sufficient supply, isn’t having to charge multiple vehicles, and probably some other variables I haven’t read about...

I’ve done 4 rapid charges now, all at chargers which go up to 50, and each has been at 45-49.
sb96
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:16 am

Post by sb96 »

scott28tt wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:58 am It can go up to 100 if your battery level is low enough, the battery temperature is high enough, the charger unit has sufficient supply, isn’t having to charge multiple vehicles, and probably some other variables I haven’t read about...

I’ve done 4 rapid charges now, all at chargers which go up to 50, and each has been at 45-49.
My thoughts too, but it seems a little bit off IMO. Comparing Battery Life's charging speed video on Youtube to mine it seems way too low for me. At 40% battery Battery Life charged for 80 kw/h, and at 70% he charged for 51 kw/h, which is substantially higher than mine ever were.

My kw/h was just stuck at 36kw/h the first charge and the second charge was between 36-42kw/h no matter what battery % my car had.

And the charging station seemed to have sufficient supply, since at one point I was all alone at the station and was still only charging at 30-40kw/h. There was only one other car charging there at my second stop, and he drove Hyundai(maybe Kona?) and had 54kw/h.
roadhawk
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Post by roadhawk »

I have used Ionity twice and both times initially got about 35 kw charging rate. The first time the charger was on free vend, I had something to eat and left it. The second time after a bite to eat, I moved the car to another charger having added 20% and it started at 72 kw charging. It maybe that charging the battery 20% warmed it up sufficiently. In both cases I had driven 165 miles at 70pmh on the motorway (Oxford to Leeds).
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sb96
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Post by sb96 »

roadhawk wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:13 pm I have used Ionity twice and both times initially got about 35 kw charging rate. The first time the charger was on free vend, I had something to eat and left it. The second time after a bite to eat, I moved the car to another charger having added 20% and it started at 72 kw charging. It maybe that charging the battery 20% warmed it up sufficiently. In both cases I had driven 165 miles at 70pmh on the motorway (Oxford to Leeds).
Yeah, cold battery might've been the cause for me too. But I'm still unsure, I had been driving for almost 50 minutes on the highway at 120km/h, should my battery not be warm by then?
sb96
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:16 am

Post by sb96 »

So, I've been to an Ionity charger again.

But still no luck, never charges above 40kw/h. Doesn't matter for how long I've driven the car, if there's other cars charging, if its minus or plus outside or what battery % I have.

I've seen other cars(not ID3s) charging at the same Ionity station above 50kw/h, so it's not a faulty station.

Is there something wrong with the software? Is the battery in my car faulty? Is there something I'm doing wrong?
roadhawk
Posts: 105
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Post by roadhawk »

Did you try switching chargers or stopping the session and restarting after charging say 20% ? I also switched on the heating in the car when I left the car doing the initial 20% (described earlier in the thread) .
Hopefully an update will get battery heating sorted.
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sb96
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Post by sb96 »

roadhawk wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:18 pm Did you try switching chargers or stopping the session and restarting after charging say 20% ? I also switched on the heating in the car when I left the car doing the initial 20% (described earlier in the thread) .
Hopefully an update will get battery heating sorted.
Yes, I've tried to switch with no luck... Hopefully this will get fixed in the ME2.1 update, because this is really bad...
sb96
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Post by sb96 »

So, after some more digging I now know why ID3 charges slowly.

It's extremely hard to get the battery warm.

This very good and informative video from Nextmove explains everything. It's a German channel but subtitles are in English:


Key takeaways:
-ID3 with no heat pump is in some situations better at managing heat/battery consumption than an ID3 with heat pump.
-To get 100KW/H at an Ionity charger you will need to warm the battery by driving fast. Approximately driving 150km/h for 95km.
Last edited by sb96 on Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pdk42
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Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:57 pm

Post by pdk42 »

sb96 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:34 am So, after some more digging I now know why ID3 charges slowly.

It's extremely hard to get the battery warm.

This very good and informative video from Nextmove explains everything. It's a German channel but subtitles are in English:


Key takeaways:
-ID3 with no heat pump is in some situations better at managing heat/battery consumption than an ID3 with heat pump(I had no idea, and the results are kinda amazing that this is a fact, hopefully solved in a software update)
-To get 100KW/H at an Ionity charger you will need to warm the battery by driving fast. Approximately driving 150km/h for 95km.
.
Why can't the ID.3 pre-heat the battery in anticipation of rapid charging - like a Tesla? Seems weird that VW's premier entry into the EV market is missing such basic stuff! And as to the heat pump being worse than a resistive heater? WTF. I paid over a grand for this! And I did it based on VW graphs that showed up to 30% better efficiency with cars fitted with the pump.

hp.png

Image

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/electric/r ... D25%C2%B0C.
sb96
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 10:16 am

Post by sb96 »

Yupp, the heat pump seems to be extremely bad. Unless there's some magic in the ME2.1 update it seems like an ID3 with no heat pump is better at managing the battery %.

A graph from the video:

Screenshot 2021-01-05 at 17.08.48.png

Only in the second lap did the ID3 with a heat pump use less energy.
simonrg
Posts: 249
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Post by simonrg »

sb96 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:10 pm Yupp, the heat pump seems to be extremely bad. Unless there's some magic in the ME2.1 update it seems like an ID3 with no heat pump is better at managing the battery %.
.....
At this point I have little confidence in even the simple functions of the ID.3's software, so managing engine, battery and heat pump together efficiently is beyond its current capabilities.
So, currently heat pump is being surely being sold under the false pretense of raising winter range, but then I think the winter range is also untrue with VW's video talking about a minimum range of 280km (~175miles) for highway driving -
ID.3 Business Pro Performance + Heat Pump - 0564 (23/12/20) - 0783 (28/1/21) - 0792 (7/5/21) - 0910 (24/10/21) - 3.2 (6/7/23) - Hardware H20 - North Yorkshire
sb96
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Post by sb96 »

simonrg wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:08 pm
sb96 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:10 pm Yupp, the heat pump seems to be extremely bad. Unless there's some magic in the ME2.1 update it seems like an ID3 with no heat pump is better at managing the battery %.
.....
At this point I have little confidence in even the simple functions of the ID.3's software, so managing engine, battery and heat pump together efficiently is beyond its current capabilities.
So, currently heat pump is being surely being sold under the false pretense of raising winter range, but then I think the winter range is also untrue with VW's video talking about a minimum range of 280km (~175miles) for highway driving -
...
Yes, I'm starting to believe that's the case. I'm going to be very amazed if they manage to pull it off in the ME2.1 or any future update.

Also, the 280km of highway driving is without any heating at all, and I believe the battery is pre-heated, but even then I doubt it'll manage that distance.
simonrg
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Post by simonrg »

sb96 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:22 pm ......

Yes, I'm starting to believe that's the case. I'm going to be very amazed if they manage to pull it off in the ME2.1 or any future update.

Also, the 280km of highway driving is without any heating at all, and I believe the battery is pre-heated, but even then I doubt it'll manage that distance.
My point was almost the opposite, as I guess I am a bit more optimistic, in that if my heat pump is not helping much now and we know that 0564 software is definitely not the best, then future versions will mean that the heat pump can actually be used properly without need for any magic just sensible coding.
Having learnt all too much about warming up batteries in order to function correctly, understanding that currently ID.3 could do this better, once again hope for software to improve it.
It would appear that the ID.3 was rushed too market in order to help to reduce EU fines on VW, VAG are still trying to launch too many EV vehicles at once for similar reasons and don't appear to have enough software development effort to correct all the issues - so getting an ID.3 on 23rd December I am still effectively a "first mover" without having been told this or offered any compensating advantages for my role as a product tester.

In terms of the 280km range I suspect this was on German highways in summer, so reduction in range due to speed, but no reduction due to temperature. The video should really have a disclaimer to state that further range reductions will happen due to winter.
ID.3 Business Pro Performance + Heat Pump - 0564 (23/12/20) - 0783 (28/1/21) - 0792 (7/5/21) - 0910 (24/10/21) - 3.2 (6/7/23) - Hardware H20 - North Yorkshire
Emanuel
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Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:16 am

Post by Emanuel »

sb96 wrote: Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:22 pm Yes, I'm starting to believe that's the case. I'm going to be very amazed if they manage to pull it off in the ME2.1 or any future update.

Also, the 280km of highway driving is without any heating at all, and I believe the battery is pre-heated, but even then I doubt it'll manage that distance.
I got 19-20 kWh/100 km driving this weekend in my "Life" trim car with a heat pump. Temperature was between 0 to -6, car was parked outside before I started driving and was parked outside for 7-8 hours at my destination, heat on the whole time and in "sport" mode on nordic winter tires and snow on the road part of the way. Drove about 200 km in each direction almost all highway. In other words, far from great conditions but makes for about 320 km of range at 100% which checks out with how far I actually got. I mostly put it at 100 km/h, at 90 in some spots and 120 in some.
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