OUR Real World Range

All Volkswagen ID.3 related discussions
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

I just like the feel of D versus B.
Like Mez, I am also doing some comparisons.
Im also going to log all the data in this thread as it comes in to see how all variables pan out.
Dave
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Kaygee
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Post by Kaygee »

Daveion wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:54 am 5.1 is brilliant. Its not all downhill or with 30mph tail wind is it 😄. Seriously, that's good. Were you in D or B? Was the cabin heater on?
Mixed roads? Do you find that Mode influences your consumption much?
I got 4.7 at the weekend on a 4 mile run driving with a feather of a right foot in Eco. I think 5.1 will prove difficult to top at current ambients.
Dave
Hi Dave, the road is flat for almost the whole journey, also into a fairly strong wind, and I tend to use "B" mode. Cabin temp was set to 18'C
ColinID3
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Post by ColinID3 »

I conducted a couple of Range tests on recent trips.
My Car is a Life Pro with heatpump, running 0783 software. Having covered over 1,000 miles all running gear should have lost any initial 'newness'.
All driving is in 'D'/Eco/without ACC.
Day 1
  • Fully charged to 100% immediately before trip
    interior pre-heated to 21degc
    Exterior temperature 6 to 13 degC with significant interior warming from the sun.
    Heater set to 16degC with A/C off, minimum fan speed directed to screen to prevent misting
    Driving conditions c.15% motorway, 20% urban 20/30/40 mph limit, Balance A&B roads 50/60mph limits
    Driving to speed limit whenever safe to do so.
  • Mileage 83 miles
    consumption 34% of battery capacity
    Nominal Range 244 miles
  • Quoted consumption 4.1m/kWhr
    Range on this basis 238 miles.
Day 2
Total journey 336 miles in 2 chunks:-
  • No1
    • Fully charged to 100% immediately before trip
      interior pre-heated to 21degc
      Exterior temperature -1 to +3 degC no interior warming from the sun.
      Heater set to 18degC with A/C off, minimum fan speed directed to screen to prevent misting as well as face vents
      Driving conditions c.80% motorway, balance A&B roads 50/60mph limits
      Driving to speed limit whenever safe to do so. c.40 miles at 60mph due to fog.
    • Distance 157 miles
      Non stop journey
      87% of battery used
      Nominal Range 180 miles
    • Quoted consumption 3.1 m/kWhr
      Range on this basis 180 miles !!
  • No2
    • Fully charged to 100% an hour before setting off to return
      interior not pre-heated.
      Exterior temperature 4 to 7 degC, night time journey
      Heater set to 21degC with A/C off, no 3 fan speed directed to face vent to warm occupants
      Driving conditions c.70% motorway, 30% A&B roads 50/60mph limits
      Driving more 'freely' keeping up with traffic, and generous interpretation of speed limits whenever safe to do so. 'Winter tyre" speed warning set to 75mph as reminder.(Winter tyres not fitted).
    • Distance 179 miles
      15 minute 'splash and dash' charge
      95% of battery used (57% plus 38%)
      Nominal Range 188 miles
    • Quoted consumption 3.3 m/kWhr
      Range on this basis 190 miles
A couple of further observations.
  • All distances recorded by car were spot on with Google maps
  • Noticed limited regen until charge down to about 95%, this makes sense but hadn't realised that before.
  • I Wouldn't want to plan another cold weather Motorway journey of greater than 150 miles without a stop!
Life Pro performance, Makena, 19" Andoya, Heat-pump, Nov'20 build, 23/12/20 delivery. Now with 2.1
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

That was interesting Colin. Emphasises again on the affect of running in colder temperatures. I have also seen the limited regen when the battery is nearer to full charge and that all seems logical.

I think the 180 range on days around 5C is what to expect. Is it a concern? I think for some it may be a concern but I think there are ways you can still squeeze more.
My first trip was at pick up from Nottingham, 160 miles to home on a 0C day. I decided to drive in coat and gloves, no heater at all and cracked the drivers window open to prevent the screen misting over. I thought that would maximise my range and not require me to stop and charge, something I was reluctant to to do in my first EV and trip! It worked and I had a remaining range of 67 miles so 227 overall.
My conclusions about how to run with my car:
If you are going to heat the cabin its going to use battery capacity and cost more to top back up. I drive in my coat and gloves on cold days rather than putting my coat in the back with the ICE where there is an abundance of heat available from the engine. It took a bit of adjustment but now when I drive my other car, an ICE, Im uncomfortable with the heater on.
I also dont feel for me that pre heating the cabin is a big benefit. Clearing the screen of ice is good but beyond that if its 0C outside the cabin temperature will quickly drop again when you drive off. So a little bit of comfort on short journeys at a battery cost is not the way for me. Its not being mean, its being green!
Same with speed. On longer jouneys I drive between 60 and 65. It generally only adds minutes to the journey time compared with 70-80. Its the traffic at the end and start of my journey that drags my average speed down.
Ultimately its a choice and you can mitigate the colder running temperatures to some extent and moderate your drive style which can make the difference between needing to stop for a charge or reaching your destination squeazing your range on a longer jouney.
Bottom line. My ID3 is the first car in a long time that I get a buzz from very time I drive it.
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ColinID3
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Post by ColinID3 »

Dave, agree with you completely on the objective of minimizing heater (and for that matter A/C) use.
My difficulty is the climate requirement voice demands emanating from the front passenger seat with are required to be translated into action by the driver's figures!!
(Just as well on Life Pro, as you know, it can't be handled through the Voice Command system or I'd loose all say in the matter!)
Life Pro performance, Makena, 19" Andoya, Heat-pump, Nov'20 build, 23/12/20 delivery. Now with 2.1
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

😂 Yep. Same here.
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OllyExeterID3
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Post by OllyExeterID3 »

Daveion wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:56 am That was interesting Colin. Emphasises again on the affect of running in colder temperatures. I have also seen the limited regen when the battery is nearer to full charge and that all seems logical.

I think the 180 range on days around 5C is what to expect. Is it a concern? I think for some it may be a concern but I think there are ways you can still squeeze more.
My first trip was at pick up from Nottingham, 160 miles to home on a 0C day. I decided to drive in coat and gloves, no heater at all and cracked the drivers window open to prevent the screen misting over. I thought that would maximise my range and not require me to stop and charge, something I was reluctant to to do in my first EV and trip! It worked and I had a remaining range of 67 miles so 227 overall.
My conclusions about how to run with my car:
If you are going to heat the cabin its going to use battery capacity and cost more to top back up. I drive in my coat and gloves on cold days rather than putting my coat in the back with the ICE where there is an abundance of heat available from the engine. It took a bit of adjustment but now when I drive my other car, an ICE, Im uncomfortable with the heater on.
I also dont feel for me that pre heating the cabin is a big benefit. Clearing the screen of ice is good but beyond that if its 0C outside the cabin temperature will quickly drop again when you drive off. So a little bit of comfort on short journeys at a battery cost is not the way for me. Its not being mean, its being green!
Same with speed. On longer jouneys I drive between 60 and 65. It generally only adds minutes to the journey time compared with 70-80. Its the traffic at the end and start of my journey that drags my average speed down.
Ultimately its a choice and you can mitigate the colder running temperatures to some extent and moderate your drive style which can make the difference between needing to stop for a charge or reaching your destination squeazing your range on a longer jouney.
Bottom line. My ID3 is the first car in a long time that I get a buzz from very time I drive it.
Agree with lots of this - driving style in particular. I find the range can vary massively when driving at 60-65 and then at 68+ - seemingly up to 40 miles of range difference across the whole length of the journey. This is going to be uncomfortable for many as I have spoken to many drivers who regularly cruise at 75 - the idea of reducing this to get more range is a no-no and some would rather just wait until electric cars have 600 mile + ranges to make this a realistic option. For me, as a driver who loves to cruise at a lower speed and challenge myself with how far I can get on one charge, staying in the inside lane and just slipstreaming lorries, its fun!

One thing I would say is pre-heating isn't just for comfort benefit - it does also help to warm up the battery and ensure the overall performance is better when you start driving, rather than from a 'cold' start. I generally put it on for 20 minutes or so before a longish journey. I tend to leave the AC on at 17 degrees for pre-heat, then turn off as soon as I start driving.
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

Good point with the battery Olly. That passed me by. It takes quite a few miles before I have full green and full blue on the battery availability bar icon. It prob has a proper term? As for speed/velocity. Energy consumption is proportional to the square of the velocity.
All other things being equal, travelling at 75mph requires 56% more energy for 25% increase in speed. At 80mph its 78% more energy.
That burns everything out quicker in the longer term to get you to the next congestion spot a few minutes earlier.
I still like to push on sometimes but have mellowed much as a result of driving 20k miles a year on the M25 as my commute before retiring.
Maybe you know the QandQ Bridge and the Dartford Funnel etc. 😒
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Salmonfisher
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Post by Salmonfisher »

This thread is really interesting to me as a prospective new EV buyer.
I knew temperature and driving affected range but not by this amount.
I am used to driving with A/c on and 22-24C plus a lot of long 70 mph drives on motorway. I was assuming I would get 200-250 mile range which is essential for my regular journeys. Seems I was in cloud cuckoo land. Regretfully it looks like I will need to stick to diesel until range issues are resolved.
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

Salmonfisher wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:31 pm This thread is really interesting to me as a prospective new EV buyer.
I knew temperature and driving affected range but not by this amount.
I am used to driving with A/c on and 22-24C plus a lot of long 70 mph drives on motorway. I was assuming I would get 200-250 mile range which is essential for my regular journeys. Seems I was in cloud cuckoo land. Regretfully it looks like I will need to stick to diesel until range issues are resolved.
I dont look at the matters here as issues but instead drivers for a change in how I approach my motoring. That said, even with an increased desire to save the planet for my Grandchildren I dont think I could have gone for an EV if I was still travelling 50 miles each way on the M25 back and forth to work. Car was my only option.
The question of whether an EV will suit you is really your average journey. I occasionally will do a 200 mile trip, maybe once a month in Spring - Autumn. I would happily do that in my ID3. My regular journeys are however less than 20 miles a day.
Have you considered it that way?
Dave
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Post by Deleted User 192 »

Salmonfisher wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:31 pm This thread is really interesting to me as a prospective new EV buyer.
I knew temperature and driving affected range but not by this amount.
I am used to driving with A/c on and 22-24C plus a lot of long 70 mph drives on motorway. I was assuming I would get 200-250 mile range which is essential for my regular journeys. Seems I was in cloud cuckoo land. Regretfully it looks like I will need to stick to diesel until range issues are resolved.

I don’t do more than 120 miles / 2 hours without wanting a break, so there’s always an opportunity to leave the car on charge while I’m using the loo and having a cuppa.
ColinID3
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Post by ColinID3 »

I think we need to recognise that as yet BEV ownership is not feasible for all, especially when you consider the premium cost of the long range vehicles. I guess I'm in a similar position as Dave and Olly in that I have the luxury of adapting my driving style and journey set up to cope with the 58kWhr ID3 operating envelop. When my kids were young I would regularly spend all day on the road for work, come home on a Friday night load up the camping gear, hook up the dinghy and be back on the road in an hour to drive another 1-200 miles. I couldn't have run a BEV then!
Those of us who can be early adopters/fast followers have a vital role to play in helping to create the demand the OEM's need to refine the technology. For me I'm really enjoying being part of that development project, with all its frustrations!
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Salmonfisher
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Post by Salmonfisher »

Dave
I have considered the options as I really would like to move to an EV for environmental and driving reasons. My problem is I do a 150 mile trip on motorways, stay over a couple of days and then 150 mile return about every two to three weeks all through year plus several trips of 250 to 450 miles each way to Wales and Scotland (for fishing) each year. Around 17/18,000 miles a year. I could live with a guaranteed 250 mile or near range but would really struggle below that. Reading the really useful posts here it seems it will be a few more years before EV will suit me which is a pity.
stu-evs
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Post by stu-evs »

Salmonfisher wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:34 am Dave
I have considered the options as I really would like to move to an EV for environmental and driving reasons. My problem is I do a 150 mile trip on motorways, stay over a couple of days and then 150 mile return about every two to three weeks all through year plus several trips of 250 to 450 miles each way to Wales and Scotland (for fishing) each year. Around 17/18,000 miles a year. I could live with a guaranteed 250 mile or near range but would really struggle below that. Reading the really useful posts here it seems it will be a few more years before EV will suit me which is a pity.
I think you’d need to be looking at the ‘premium’ end of the market at the moment is probably the reality rather than EV not working for you at all. My daily commute is 150 miles - pre lockdown I was doing that every day (including right through winter) in an EV and I only ever charged overnight at home - range has never been an issue. The fantastic experience I’ve had with one EV in the house is what’s made us buy the ID3 too - so now we’re a ‘2 EV household’.

Like you, quite a few long distance trips each year too - they were the only times I ever charged ‘publicly’ - even then many of them you could manage with just destination charging as likely they’re in the nicer weather so range is better anyway.

As I say - don’t discount completely - just less choice in the higher range/premium sector....(and I recognise not everyone can afford that)
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Post by G43FAN »

I think the market around range extenders will increase dramatically for a few years. There are already ideas around battery trailers, putting extenders and even aux motors in caravans etc.
For some, the EV is still going to be a stretch, but 100 years ago driving a 500 - 900 mile round trip several times a year would be unheard of too.
According to some info I saw the highest average mileage for EVs in the UK currently was the Tesla Model S with 12-13000 miles a year. Most other EVs are showing less than 9000 averages.
OllyExeterID3
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Post by OllyExeterID3 »

Salmonfisher wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:34 am Dave
I have considered the options as I really would like to move to an EV for environmental and driving reasons. My problem is I do a 150 mile trip on motorways, stay over a couple of days and then 150 mile return about every two to three weeks all through year plus several trips of 250 to 450 miles each way to Wales and Scotland (for fishing) each year. Around 17/18,000 miles a year. I could live with a guaranteed 250 mile or near range but would really struggle below that. Reading the really useful posts here it seems it will be a few more years before EV will suit me which is a pity.
It is tricky because some of these issues will be fixed with longer range but I think the predominant shift over the next 5 years will be infrastructure and efficiency rather than battery size.

Don't discount entirely if you can - we scrimped and saved to get a second-hand i3 (with a range extender) - running from a house with no driveway and regular 500 mile round trips to see family in Cambridge. After an initial worry about ensuring I got to 100% and feeling I needed to use the range extender, I rarely ever did - we used it once on a long journey and that was only because I didn't trust the Ecotricity points at Moto services to work so powered on through!

That had an average range of 100 miles on a charge but actually I found that, even in a family emergency, the reliability of the car doing high miles (250+) was phenomenal and only took an hour longer than if we had done the same in an ICE car. I suppose the main point to say is owning an EV requires planning - you need to know where to stop, when to power on through and where to make the best use of slow chargers too.

Finally, perhaps slightly differently to some on here, I only use the ID3 for 50 mile+ journeys, preferring the train or cycling for shorter trips. This past year has been boom time for charging infrastructure, and it will only get better.

If you need to see how infrastructure changes mindsets, look up Norway as an example. Cold weather, 1000km long country, high rural populations. Yet over 50% new sales are EVs. Main driver is access to reliable charging even in rural locations. If you did your 150 mile journey every few weeks but knew at your destination location, you just needed to charge for 25 mins to get back again, it is straightforward. But you need to know the infrastructure will be there. That is what will be the tipping point.
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

Im a beginner with an EV but make Olly right.
I have not used a public charger many times so far and won't go into the ins and outs but it hasn't always gone as smooth as I would have liked. Upside though is my local Tesco has 11kw chargers free and I can get the weeks charge in a little over 2 hours whilst I cycle down the Thames footpaths 😄
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G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

In keeping with the original thread title..
Picked mine up yesterday (Friday) and had a 111 mile drive home..

Temp 5.0C - 7.5C Car was Warmed and I assume pre-feated at dealers charge of 100%
Climate was set to 20C for the journey which was a mix of Dual carrigeway and A roads.
Despite my efforts to restrain I was heavier on the righ pedal occasionallly and the car surprised me in it's eagerness to get from 50 - 70ish..

Overall 111miles Avg Speed 43mph 2:37h time 3.2 mi/kWh 43% charge..

Stopped part way to get some lunch at a drive tru then parked up to get out to eat. Did't really shut down the car or lock it and when we set off the Info screen froze, the Nav was still updating and moving but was unresponsive to the touch. Quick reboot and all was well.

Over all really enjoyed the drive and having just handed back a BiTurbo SEL Tiguan was not really dissappointed in the slightest.
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

The original thread has wobbled a bit but all in a related good way.
G43fan quote
"Stopped part way to get some lunch at a drive tru then parked up to get out to eat"
111 miles 3.2miles/kw at 20C cabin on a 6C day and a drive thru 🤩
Oh how Im looking foward to getting out a bit more now Im vaccinated.
Dave
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Post by Deleted User 192 »

Daveion wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:30 am Oh how Im looking foward to getting out a bit more now Im vaccinated.
Dave

Now you just need to wait for everyone else to get theirs so the rules change.
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