I’ll probably get hung for this - ID3 or Tesla 3

All Volkswagen ID.3 related discussions
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Jono
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Post by Jono »

Apologies for swearing - I was configuring an ID3 Max earlier (friend interested) and the Carwow prices were hardly any cheaper than the Tesla 3. In fact you could pick up a model 3 with less than 50 miles for less than the ID3 Max

I appreciate they are different beasts, but from my understanding, the Model 3 is more advanced in terms of driver technology + had better warranty.

I love my ID3, but it does make me think that the higher models may be priced a little on the high side.

Wondered what other people thought

simonrg
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Post by simonrg »

Possibly wrong forum, as many of us will have already gone through this thought process and chosen ID.3, but not for the Max specification.

Two ways of thinking of this, if you going Max spec then you will have pimped the ID.3 as far as it will go, on the other hand a similar priced Tesla will be minimum specification for a model 3.

My thought process was that I liked the idea of a long range all wheel drive Tesla 3, but cost was considerable, removing all the features made it feel like I was missing out on too much. A mid-specification ID.3 promised most of the key features and was effectively £20K cheaper so felt more justifiable, and cost/benefit ratio felt right.
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Jono
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Post by Jono »

Your views mirrored my own, hence why I went for the ID3. I was just surprised how close the pricing came when, you went for the higher spec ID3.
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

I wanted a hatchback and probably in a minority who doesn't like the look of a Tesla Model 3. Always looks good in 2D but a mismatch of shapes in 3D.
The ID.3 looks better 3D in the flesh.
My EV requirements were more than met by the ID.3
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Post by stu-evs »

Daveion wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:18 am I wanted a hatchback and probably in a minority who doesn't like the look of a Tesla Model 3. Always looks good in 2D but a mismatch of shapes in 3D.
The ID.3 looks better 3D in the flesh.
My EV requirements were more than met by the ID.3
Dave
No, I’d agree with you - in fact I’d go further - I really dislike the looks of every Tesla; and the interiors are just dreadful. Not just being a judge from afar either - my cousin has had a Model S and now a Model X - I really don’t like either of them. More than just the looks too they’ve also been plagued with faults on both of them. The Model S was definitely worst - regularly in for repairs and the worst experience was probably autopilot actually driving them off the road resulting in blown out tyres and damage to the vehicle - fortunately they were OK. Last but not least a number of colleagues now have Tesla’s too - and when they’re parked up next to each other I just can’t unsee the wildly different panel gaps and poor fitting doors etc. between each of them. So, no thanks, even if I was given a Tesla for free, I’d sell it....
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Post by Smokeyhill »

I was 100% convinced my next car was going to be a Tesla for the last few years, then I saw a video where a chap asked his partner what she thought of the Tesla compared to the e-Nero, and she didn’t hold back her disdain for the toy like features of the Tesla. Made me do a complete rethink, especially when my own partner admitted thinking exactly the same thing about Tesla’s. (Are you going to live in it or drive it, was one memorable comment)
I agree the Max is expensive, I chose the style, as there are some good bargains out there for what for me is a good mid spec model, and the kids like the glass roof.
G43FAN

Post by G43FAN »

It's almost like the whole Apple v Android fight in my mind.

Tesla were world's ahead of anyone bringing a useable EV to the market and they are still probably 3 - 5 years ahead of the competition in terms of BMS and Software. However their experience in the mass manufacturing market shows, and that is allowing the major manufacturers to rapidly catch up and I would suggest some day overtake.

They seem to design every model from the ground up and people are paying for that development every time, the Auto industry has shown for years that shared platforms are a better(cheaper) option.

Like others I needed a hatchback, I have two journeys I do regularly.. 1 involves transporting a very excitable Springer spaniel and the other a Hockey Golkeepers kit.. (sometimes both)
I f I had £85k to spend now, would I be buying a Model S or a Taycan? I wouldn't even consider the Tesla.
Salmonfisher
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Post by Salmonfisher »

Not surprising the pro ID3 views on this forum of ID3 fans. Realistically they are very different cars with different pros and cons. ID3 is better built, more practical design, a hatch back and a lot cheaper. Model 3 is ahead in terms of engine, performance, range, superchargers and probably reliability given a longer track record and the ID3 software problems so far. Model 3 wouldn't suit me due to design and I would worry re build quality. However this may change with when Model Y comes out. A practical SUV shape with a far better range and access to superchargers. I gather it is to be built in Europe and I think Germany - will this sort the build issues? If so I will be very tempted and it will be a major challenger to ID4.
Deleted User 192

Post by Deleted User 192 »

I wanted a hatchback. I got an ID.3.

For me it was that simple 👍
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Raxacorico
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Post by Raxacorico »

Salmonfisher wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:54 am Not surprising the pro ID3 views on this forum of ID3 fans. Realistically they are very different cars with different pros and cons. ID3 is better built, more practical design, a hatch back and a lot cheaper. Model 3 is ahead in terms of engine, performance, range, superchargers and probably reliability given a longer track record and the ID3 software problems so far. Model 3 wouldn't suit me due to design and I would worry re build quality. However this may change with when Model Y comes out. A practical SUV shape with a far better range and access to superchargers. I gather it is to be built in Europe and I think Germany - will this sort the build issues? If so I will be very tempted and it will be a major challenger to ID4.
Hi Salmonfisher
Yes, the Tesla Model Y will be built in the new gigafactory, currently being built near Berlin. Deliveries are supposed to start near the end of the year. I'm probably going to get an ID3 since the TMY is likely to be £55k plus. But, yes, should be better built, even the Chinese built TM3, apparently, is better built than the US made version! I had my eye on one since first announced, but the likelyhood that the rear side windows will be black kills the idea, even if I had the money ...
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HeidiFlowerpt Driver
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Post by HeidiFlowerpt Driver »

scott28tt wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:51 am I wanted a hatchback. I got an ID.3.

For me it was that simple 👍
Me too.
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ColinID3
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Post by ColinID3 »

For me, having dismissed the Nissan, The ID3 was the first BEV which promised a non-stop driving range of 200 miles that I could afford (£6,000 down <£260 @15,000 miles per year).
Having said that, best non- stop journey achieved so far is 170 miles, and with numerous problem with public charging sites, I'm looking longingly at the Tesla charging infrastructure. That alone would make me opt for Tesla if I could afford it.
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Raxacorico
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Post by Raxacorico »

ColinID3 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:01 am I'm looking longingly at the Tesla charging infrastructure. That alone would make me opt for Tesla if I could afford it.
Yes, the rest have a long way to go!! Roll on more of the likes of GridServe ...
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bitmanEV
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Post by bitmanEV »

wonder how many have actually driven a Model 3 when reading the comments here but he it's a ID.3 forum after all ;)

don't get me wrong and i do like the ID.3 and have driven it but it doesn't hold up with the Model 3 in many ways; range and charging network if that's important (done over 22k miles within a year)

they are two different cars and not really compare even a fully spec (read most expensive) ID.3 will not be the same as the Model 3; speakers how many? OTA software updates? charging speed? fully personal profiles changing the seats, mirror, steering wheel etc none existing with the ID.3

we want to replace the 'old' 2012 LEAF hence did check out the ID.3 but still undecided with what to replace it :?


but by the end of the day it's personal choice to make they both BEV and we need more on the road and glad VW is now serious about BEV
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Post by monkeyhanger »

My cousin has an M3 as a company car and wishes he had his old Passat bi-turbo TDI back.

He's fine with the performance but it looks like it's been put together in a shed, in the dark.

Door and bumper alignnent to the main body are shocking, the interior creaks like a Spanish Galleon and 2 door handles have broken in use.

Maybe Tesla should stick to EV drive trains.
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pdk42
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Post by pdk42 »

I run a Model 3 and my wife has an ID.3, so I'm familiar with both. In a nutshell:

- They're really in different categories of car - in terms of size, price, features etc, In a mature market you wouldn't be comparing them. However, the limited EV market right now does provoke a comparison.

ID.3:
- Is better built (panel gaps, door slam, paintwork).
- Is quieter (interior cabin noise).
- Rides better (less crashing over uneven surfaces).
- In general has better hardware engineering overall (i.e. the basic automotive design).
- Is supported by a comprehensive dealer network.
- Has a too-cheap interior (hard surfaces, too much cheap-looking plastic, poor physical controls, lack of rear speakers).
- Has software that is still a mess. I have little confidence that VW will fix all the issues or evolve it significantly any time soon. The 2.1 upgrade has been a fiasco.
- Still lacks three important features - battery pre-heating before rapid charging, scheduled charging, and a decent mobile app.

Model 3:
- Is streets ahead of the ID.3 in terms of its software - both features and stability. The ID.3 shows its routes in a traditional car company, whereas the M3 shows its roots as a clean-sheet technology design.
- Is a more mature EV platform - esp in terms of battery management, software, charging etc.
- Is unique in its access to the Supercharger network. This cannot be underestimated in terms of its importance if you want to do long-distance motoring with little stress.
- Performs (accelerates) better (much better).
- Has longer range.
- Suffers from questionable design & build quality in many areas (panel gaps, paintwork, ...).
- Has a questionable service model.

In an ideal world, we'd have a car whose hardware was designed and built by VW, but whose software and tech (and SuC network) was provided by Tesla!
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

I found that an interesting comparison from someone who knows both cars well.
I think you are also right that in a mature market you wouldn't compare a hatch back with a saloon.
I hope VW can up the anti with SW. The ID3 is certainly a good drive and at 7 seconds or so 0-60 is fast enough. Compares well with mid range BMW and Mercedes 2 litre ICE models.
I think a well built Tesla hatch still might sway me in the future.
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pdk42
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Post by pdk42 »

Daveion wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:45 pm I think a well built Tesla hatch still might sway me in the future.
Tesla's position right now is interesting:

- They still only have four models (S, X, 3, Y)
- The S and the X are looking old. The S had a recent facelift, but it's still basically the same car (and UK version is at least a year away)
- The 3 is now coming up four years old and there's no sign of a replacement
- The Y still isn't available in all markets
- There are no credible rumours of a small hatch (Model 2?)
- Their stock market valuation is stratospheric (worth more than the top 6 other car companies combined - see also chart below)
- They have something like $20bn in cash

So, the obvious question to ask is why is the range really so limited given their market and financial position? Compare to VW, who already have:

- Micro car (eUp!)
- Hatch (ID.3)
- Mini SUV (ID.4)
- Slightly larger SUV (ID.6 - China only at present)
- Coupe/SUV (ID.5 - lots of spy photos of it on the roads)

Then we have credible rumours of:

- ID Buzz (camper van)
- ID.2 (Polo-sized car)
- ID Vizzion (Passat-sized saloon/estate)

Then we have the other VAG variants;

- Audi eTron range (eTron, eTron Sportsback, eTron GT)
- SEAT (Mii, el Born)
- Skoda (Enyak, Vision)

It's hard to imagine Tesla keeping its lead given the pace of the other manufacturers. Which makes this chart look really insane - valuation per car sold:

TeslaValuation.png

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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

Time to invest in models before VW and others get things right with EVs. Ford are planning models around the VW MEB platform. When that starts there will almost certainly be an EV Fiesta/Focus.
As far as Im aware the Fiesta is still the UKs best selling car with good sales across Europe.
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id73
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Post by id73 »

I have both an ID3 family and a Tesla Model 3 Performance.
I don’t recall them being close in price though, about £30k and £55k respectively, so M3 is almost twice the price.

We bought an ID3 as needed an inexpensive hatch back for the dogs, for short trips around town, school run etc.
For this it’s great and it’s a bit softer and soaks up the bumps better than the Tesla. I’d say cabin noise is less in the ID3 but it’s marginal.
The ID3 tech and infotainment system is pretty poor, only thing that saves it is reasonably good integration of apple car play, however the sound system is dreadful with only speakers in the front.

The Tesla feels more special, has breath taking performance and the tech is light years ahead.
I think people exaggerate the build quality/ panel gaps thing way too much. It might have been an issue on 2014 Model S but by 2020 it’s not an issue on our car. The sound system is staggeringly good and of course the range, charging infrastructure and autopilot are best in class.
The software updates every month over the air and you can watch Netflix, YouTube and play games on big screen if ever you find yourself sitting around waiting in the car. The ID3 has none of these frills, I’m told ID3 will update over the air at some point but my experience to date of bugs and pain of having to take the car to dealer for software 2.0 and 2.1 updates has reminded me slick the Tesla tech side of things is.

The difference in stance of the cars is also very different, ID3 like a mini SUV and M3 lower and sportier.
Overall I think both cars a great for their price point but my two cars weren’t really that closely priced.
Maybe a fully loaded ID3 max vs a standard range basic M3 are much closer in price, if thats the case and you don’t need a hatchback then go for the M3. Lack of hatchback is the M3s main drawback vs ID3 but when the Model Y comes out I’ll defo trade the M3 in for that and think that car will be best of both worlds.
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