Reduce VAT on public charging

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Dinsdale
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Post by Dinsdale »

It came to light recently that VAT on public chargers is 20%, the VAT rate at home for electricity is 5%. I figured there had to be a petition to sign to try and sort this out and have public charging VAT reduced to 5%, and found there wasnt. So I started one.

Please sign it and share it among other EV groups you know, Thanks very much

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/608872
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Post by Jack1338 »

Signed.

With electricity costs going up in April I'm a bit scared what it'll mean for public chargers. There's a 50kW charger near me that's 25p/kWh. Right now, that seems super high. Come April... that's a bargain, and it charges much faster than my home charger.
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

Jack1338 wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:08 am Signed.

With electricity costs going up in April I'm a bit scared what it'll mean for public chargers. There's a 50kW charger near me that's 25p/kWh. Right now, that seems super high. Come April... that's a bargain, and it charges much faster than my home charger.

You can probably expect public charging to be in the 50p/kWh territory, and higher for some operators. 25p/kWh is positively cheap and unlikely to stick around.
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Post by Dinsdale »

Thanks Jack1338 appreciated :)

Yeah I agree public charging is going to be expensive, but i dont see why people with no driveway should pay 4 times the tax of people with one, If government policy is to move people from fossil fuels then to apply joined up tax policy on it would seem sensible.

I know that the exchequer has to make money somewhere, and that fuel duty income is falling, but I think that future revenue will come from road mile charging (for both EV and ICE) instead of current road tax. But the VAT thing is an issue I think needs to be raised.
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Post by Daveion »

Dinsdale wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:15 pm Thanks Jack1338 appreciated :)

Yeah I agree public charging is going to be expensive, but i dont see why people with no driveway should pay 4 times the tax of people with one, If government policy is to move people from fossil fuels then to apply joined up tax policy on it would seem sensible.

I know that the exchequer has to make money somewhere, and that fuel duty income is falling, but I think that future revenue will come from road mile charging (for both EV and ICE) instead of current road tax. But the VAT thing is an issue I think needs to be raised.
I think you are absolutely correct. I have a home charger and people unable to have one should not be disadvantaged. I think the rate should be the same for all. The disparity is huge between home and public charging as it is without the extra burden of higher vat.
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Post by Daveion »

Daveion wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:09 pm
Dinsdale wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:15 pm Thanks Jack1338 appreciated :)

Yeah I agree public charging is going to be expensive, but i dont see why people with no driveway should pay 4 times the tax of people with one, If government policy is to move people from fossil fuels then to apply joined up tax policy on it would seem sensible.

I know that the exchequer has to make money somewhere, and that fuel duty income is falling, but I think that future revenue will come from road mile charging (for both EV and ICE) instead of current road tax. But the VAT thing is an issue I think needs to be raised.
I think you are absolutely correct. I have a home charger and people unable to have one should not be disadvantaged. I think the rate should be the same for all. The disparity is huge between home and public charging as it is without the extra burden of higher vat.
Dave
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Post by Utumno »

Daveion wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:12 pm
Daveion wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:09 pm
Dinsdale wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 12:15 pm Thanks Jack1338 appreciated :)

Yeah I agree public charging is going to be expensive, but i dont see why people with no driveway should pay 4 times the tax of people with one, If government policy is to move people from fossil fuels then to apply joined up tax policy on it would seem sensible.

I know that the exchequer has to make money somewhere, and that fuel duty income is falling, but I think that future revenue will come from road mile charging (for both EV and ICE) instead of current road tax. But the VAT thing is an issue I think needs to be raised.
I think you are absolutely correct. I have a home charger and people unable to have one should not be disadvantaged. I think the rate should be the same for all. The disparity is huge between home and public charging as it is without the extra burden of higher vat.
Dave
Signed.

Can I ask an awkward question ? 😂
I have a home charger and people unable to have one should not be disadvantaged. I think the rate should be the same for all.
Is that "same for all" rate you're talking about 5% or 20% ? Particularly given ICE drivers all pay 20% VAT on ICE fuel, and business electricity consumers all also pay 20% on electricity, as well as ICE fuel.

I tend to find that people are all able to agree that everyone should pay less tax, but are generally less happy about having their tax burden rise...
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Post by Daveion »

Utumno wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:44 pm
Daveion wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:12 pm
Daveion wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:09 pm

I think you are absolutely correct. I have a home charger and people unable to have one should not be disadvantaged. I think the rate should be the same for all. The disparity is huge between home and public charging as it is without the extra burden of higher vat.
Dave
Signed.

Can I ask an awkward question ? 😂
I have a home charger and people unable to have one should not be disadvantaged. I think the rate should be the same for all.
Is that "same for all" rate you're talking about 5% or 20% ? Particularly given ICE drivers all pay 20% VAT on ICE fuel, and business electricity consumers all also pay 20% on electricity, as well as ICE fuel.

I tend to find that people are all able to agree that everyone should pay less tax, but are generally less happy about having their tax burden rise...
Same for all whatever that rate is. No disadvantage if you don't have a drive.
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Post by Utumno »

Daveion wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:17 pm
Utumno wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:44 pm
Daveion wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:12 pm

Signed.

Can I ask an awkward question ? 😂
I have a home charger and people unable to have one should not be disadvantaged. I think the rate should be the same for all.
Is that "same for all" rate you're talking about 5% or 20% ? Particularly given ICE drivers all pay 20% VAT on ICE fuel, and business electricity consumers all also pay 20% on electricity, as well as ICE fuel.

I tend to find that people are all able to agree that everyone should pay less tax, but are generally less happy about having their tax burden rise...

Same for all whatever that rate is. No disadvantage if you don't have a drive.

I applaud you sir, and am also in the same camp. Hence not signing the petition; I'd rather see VAT rise for EV charging at home to 20% nationally than see VAT cut to 5% for public charging.
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Post by Member-1677 »

Signed.
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Post by Dinsdale »

Utumno wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:44 pm
Can I ask an awkward question ? 😂
I have a home charger and people unable to have one should not be disadvantaged. I think the rate should be the same for all.
Is that "same for all" rate you're talking about 5% or 20% ? Particularly given ICE drivers all pay 20% VAT on ICE fuel, and business electricity consumers all also pay 20% on electricity, as well as ICE fuel.

I tend to find that people are all able to agree that everyone should pay less tax, but are generally less happy about having their tax burden rise...
Yes, its a very fair question. The same rate for all, as the petition says is 5%. Its true ICE drivers pay 20%, but government policy is to move people away from fossil fuels. Its also true that business cutomers pay 20% unless they meet certain criteria in which case the rate is reduced to 5%.

But here we are comparing apples and pears. Someone with a driveway pays 5% VAT to charge a car. Someone without a driveway pays 20% VAT to charge a car, That is most defintily not right. Some may argue, but certainly to someone living here in Cumbria a car is pretty much an essential item, It absolutely falls under the 5% rate.

As i mention earlier, I think road mile charging is coming, for both ICE and EVs, I think that has been on the cards for a long time, really since smaller diesels were becoming more and more efficient.
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Post by DumfriesDik »

Done
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Post by ItshardtobuyId3 »

Signed. Mind you I’ve got a drive so could add to its value in the future. It’s not fair on people that they’ll be paying more tax to charge because the don’t have a drive though.

Will be interesting to see what happens in the future though as the government is going to want to claw back all the lost fuel duty somehow. Putting up VAT on domestic supply to 20% would go down like a lead balloon.
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Post by Dinsdale »

Member1667 and DumfiesDik, thanks, Appreciated :)
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Post by Dinsdale »

ItshardtobuyId3 wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:00 pm Signed. Mind you I’ve got a drive so could add to its value in the future. It’s not fair on people that they’ll be paying more tax to charge because the don’t have a drive though.

Will be interesting to see what happens in the future though as the government is going to want to claw back all the lost fuel duty somehow. Putting up VAT on domestic supply to 20% would go down like a lead balloon.
Thanks, I dont think they will go down that route, i really think road mile charging is the more likely senario, both for ICE and EV. VAT to 20% on all domestic billing would not fly, would resemble the poll tax riots i think.
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Post by ItshardtobuyId3 »

Dinsdale wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:03 pm
ItshardtobuyId3 wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:00 pm Signed. Mind you I’ve got a drive so could add to its value in the future. It’s not fair on people that they’ll be paying more tax to charge because the don’t have a drive though.

Will be interesting to see what happens in the future though as the government is going to want to claw back all the lost fuel duty somehow. Putting up VAT on domestic supply to 20% would go down like a lead balloon.
Thanks, I dont think they will go down that route, i really think road mile charging is the more likely senario, both for ICE and EV. VAT to 20% on all domestic billing would not fly, would resemble the poll tax riots i think.
Yes, I’d not be in the least surprised if they brought in road mile charging.
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Post by Raxacorico »

The Government will have to come up with something to replace the duty on fossil fuels - per mile charging probably, assuming they can retro-fit some kind of gizmo to every vehicle.
I've signed the petition btw ...
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Post by TheJimster »

Utumno wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:50 am
Jack1338 wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:08 am Signed.

With electricity costs going up in April I'm a bit scared what it'll mean for public chargers. There's a 50kW charger near me that's 25p/kWh. Right now, that seems super high. Come April... that's a bargain, and it charges much faster than my home charger.

You can probably expect public charging to be in the 50p/kWh territory, and higher for some operators. 25p/kWh is positively cheap and unlikely to stick around.
Instavolt are increasing from 45p/kWh to 50p/kWh as of tomorrow. Fully expect some of the other networks to follow.
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Post by MLB_ID3 »

I've signed the petition. Might be worth sharing with EV You Tube channels?
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Post by Garyb 123 »

Ive signed it but there’s an awful long way to go to get it discussed. Fingers crossed!
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