Direct Comparison to the Cupra Born

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Derekosb
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Post by Derekosb » Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:20 pm

Well, having started this thread nearly three months ago that took a little time to catch up with all the new Born drivers in here. I am not even in mine yet.

However, not for long. I am due to collect it on Saturday.

Firstly I sold my ID.3 through CarWow and was delighted with the price achieved. I "made" £7,800 more than it had cost me!! I am therefore able to step sideways into my Born for no cost and £3,500 extra in my pocket.

Dealer sent me some pictures when the car arrived yesterday to tease me (not really, I asked for them before I paid them for the car).

Really looking forward to Saturday and the week will doubtless feel very s l o w. . . . . . .

ID3 collection.jpg

ST22 OSW Delivered D 27.6.22.jpg

ST22 OSW Delivered C 27.6.22.jpg

ST22 OSW Delivered B 27.6.22.jpg

ST22 OSW Delivered A 27.6.22.jpg


G43FAN
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Post by G43FAN » Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:06 am

I'm curious about one thing, a lot of people have used the equity in their ID.3s to step across to a Born and why not the particular set of circumstances over the last couple of years have given us another unprecedented occurence with car values, but what of the equity in the Cupra cars what is likely to be the depreciation on the Cupra over the fabled VW value holding?

I'm very puzzled by the whole appearene of Cupra, I thought VAG had their marques in a set ladder but suddenly they seem to be pushing Cupra as Luxury SEAT, I thought if you wanted a luxury Seat you bought an Audi?
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sidehaas
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Post by sidehaas » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:36 am

I think the Cupra brand is being pushed more as a sporty Seat than a luxury Seat. You get the sportier looks and in some cases performance, but you don't get the additional comfort, expensive materials, sound proofing etc that you would get in an Audi - it's a different target market. I don't claim to be an expert though. You can also see a clash with some of the Skoda cars, VRSs have always been popular - but it doesn't seem to cause them any harm.
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Post by duncsand » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:42 am

sidehaas wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:36 am
I think the Cupra brand is being pushed more as a sporty Seat than a luxury Seat. You get the sportier looks and in some cases performance, but you don't get the additional comfort, expensive materials, sound proofing etc that you would get in an Audi - it's a different target market. I don't claim to be an expert though. You can also see a clash with some of the Skoda cars, VRSs have always been popular - but it doesn't seem to cause them any harm.
I'd agree with that - the Born has a slightly better interior, it's really only styling. The base materials are the same, so not really more luxurious. I am slightly mystified by the proliferation of brands though. I'd have thought this must bring added complexity and therefore cost. It'll be interesting to see how this works out longer term - I wouldn't mind betting that we see some level of brand consolidation at some point. eg maybe the long-term plan is that Seat becomes Cupra?
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger » Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:21 am

It really does seem to me that VAG are pushing Cupra to be in a higher category of prestigiousness among the pack:

Old hierarchy: Audi > VW > Seat > Skoda

New perceived hierarchy: Audi > Cupra > VW > Seat > Skoda

Perhaps its not that simple, Cupra is perhaps on an equal pairing with the performance VWs e.g. GTD/GTI/R. The performance variants of the VWs have always had a better level of residual values than the low to mid trims, to the extent that when the MK7 Golf was launched, the PCP monthlies on a Golf GT 150TDI were higher than the GTD, because although the GTD cost a few grand more, it had much better residuals.

Perceived residual value is something I considered when deciding whether to jump to a Born or not. I use the PCP GFV as an indicator of how well they are likely to hold their value. The ID3 was running at about 50% of RRP after 3 years/30k miles, the Born 204ps was about the same and the Born V2 E-Boost was running at about 54%. So under normal (non-shortage) circumstances, the Born shouldn't do any worse than the ID3, and those GFVs are massively pessimistic in the current climate, so only used them for comparative basis between the cars.

Comparing Born to ID3, I didn't think the materials used were any better or worse than the ID3's overall, just a different target market - being a bit more appealing to those that normally buy hot hatches. Some areas look like a bit more money has been spent, but the rear door cards are cheaper than the front on the Born, but the rear cards on the ID3 are pretty much the same style front and back.

For me, buying a Seat Leon Cupra over a Golf R previously never appealed because I was never able to get a decent discount from a Seat dealer, making them only marginally cheaper, but with worse residuals, making that Golf R far better value overall - case in point that I kept a Golf R 4 years and it only lost me £230 a month in depreciation over that time.

Despite the old hierarchy above, I always felt that Seats had a far cheaper looking interior than Skoda - Skoda did try hard to shake the old perceptions. The Cupras I have seen look like they have a far better interior than teh average Seat. We were looking for alternatives just prior to getting a Polo GTI in 2018, and the Ibiza FR was so cheap inside, the rear doors had wind down windows - haven't seen them on a new car since about 1998!

The Cupra might be able to carry off a marginally better hierarchal position within VAG than VW overall, but my recent experiences with the dealerships are that they need to tidy themselves up - a lot of that brandiing hierarchy is in perception, and my local Sunderland Seat/Cupra dealership is a scruffy little dump compared to the swish all glass dealerships that are commonly selling VWs, Audis and Skodas. Twickenham Seat/Cupra (where I got one Born from) was swish, the used car branch of the Woking dealership with a tiny workshop on the side (which might have been the PDI workshop) that I picked up the other Born from was another scruffy little dump - not sure why they arranged pick-up there rather than the main dealership site I passed to get there.

Not a great impression to be picking up from an Arthur Daley looking used car lot after handing over £39k. If you're looking to push a Cupra as a brand marginally below Audi, the dealerships need to be looking as swish as an Audi dealership.

The paintwork on the Aurora Blue Born we got is just awful. Looks shiny, but has the texture of frosted glass on a lot of panels (as I discovered when I went to wash it 2 days after I picked it up. Woking dealership not interested unless I return the car to them (283 miles away), despite my local dealership's affiliated bodyshop saying they did a piss-poor job of PDI prep and are prepared to report as such to Woking and Cupra UK. They think the car has been covered in airborne tree sap after taking the transit covers offf and leaving a while, which then hasn't been removed in PDI before they waxed it.

Checking paint thickness levels tomorrow to make sure there's been no repairs done before I got it, and at that point, assuming all is well, i'll have to bite the bullet and get the contaminants machine polished out.
Last edited by monkeyhanger on Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
His: Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps, 58kWh Glacial White, 19" Hurricane Wheels - replaced ID3 PP Life
Hers: Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps Aurora Blue, replaced ID3 PP Family

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Post by monkeyhanger » Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:30 am

Derekosb wrote:
Tue Jun 28, 2022 3:20 pm
Well, having started this thread nearly three months ago that took a little time to catch up with all the new Born drivers in here. I am not even in mine yet.

However, not for long. I am due to collect it on Saturday.

Firstly I sold my ID.3 through CarWow and was delighted with the price achieved. I "made" £7,800 more than it had cost me!! I am therefore able to step sideways into my Born for no cost and £3,500 extra in my pocket.

Dealer sent me some pictures when the car arrived yesterday to tease me (not really, I asked for them before I paid them for the car).

Really looking forward to Saturday and the week will doubtless feel very s l o w. . . . . . .
Dont forget to give those panels a run across with your finger for roughness. Are those pics the car untouched, as in it doesn't get that much covering? The lack of covering there does seem to correspond to the panels roughest on our Aurora Blue Born - the doors, wings and lower bonnet surround being roughest - worst place being the backs of the wings near the wing mirrors, I didn't have any inkling my panels would be rough as the car was very shiny and the handles fely very glossy to the touch. Seems they only prepper the areas the customer will touch before driving off.
His: Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps, 58kWh Glacial White, 19" Hurricane Wheels - replaced ID3 PP Life
Hers: Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps Aurora Blue, replaced ID3 PP Family

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Derekosb
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Post by Derekosb » Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:22 pm

monkeyhanger wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:30 am
Dont forget to give those panels a run across with your finger for roughness. Are those pics the car untouched, as in it doesn't get that much covering? The lack of covering there does seem to correspond to the panels roughest on our Aurora Blue Born - the doors, wings and lower bonnet surround being roughest - worst place being the backs of the wings near the wing mirrors, I didn't have any inkling my panels would be rough as the car was very shiny and the handles fely very glossy to the touch. Seems they only prepper the areas the customer will touch before driving off.
The photos were the car straight of the transporter just after it had been delivered to the dealer. I had some more photos sent to me last night by another member who lives across the road from my dealer showing it now cleaned and prepped. Can't wait for Saturday but I will be checking the paint now.

ST22 OSW Prepped D.jpg

ST22 OSW Prepped C.jpg

ST22 OSW Prepped B.jpg

ST22 OSW Prepped A.jpg


monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger » Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:28 pm

Derekosb wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:22 pm

The photos were the car straight of the transporter just after it had been delivered to the dealer. I had some more photos sent to me last night by another member who lives across the road from my dealer showing it now cleaned and prepped. Can't wait for Saturday but I will be checking the paint now.
Just so you know what you're checking for, the panels have the texture of frosted glass and even sound a little scratchy as you rub a few fingers or the palm of your hand across them.
His: Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps, 58kWh Glacial White, 19" Hurricane Wheels - replaced ID3 PP Life
Hers: Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps Aurora Blue, replaced ID3 PP Family

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Blackeunos
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Post by Blackeunos » Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:18 pm

I've been trying to get a deal put together to swap in to a Born, but I've got mine on a PCP and the figures just don't stack up, a bit because of the way PCPs work, too much equity in the car, so would need cashback, and the even taking the cashback in to account the monthly payments work out at £50 more than what I'm paying now.

Will maybe have to have a think on it and see what I can work out, as it would be a few extra toys on yhe car, plus my iD.3 is only the Pro, so it would be another 50ps.
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Post by monkeyhanger » Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:34 pm

Blackeunos wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:18 pm
I've been trying to get a deal put together to swap in to a Born, but I've got mine on a PCP and the figures just don't stack up, a bit because of the way PCPs work, too much equity in the car, so would need cashback, and the even taking the cashback in to account the monthly payments work out at £50 more than what I'm paying now.

Will maybe have to have a think on it and see what I can work out, as it would be a few extra toys on yhe car, plus my iD.3 is only the Pro, so it would be another 50ps.
That all sounds a little odd. Maybe you need to break it down as if your equity is cash. See what your settlement figure is from VWFS, see what motorway would buy your car for, and the difference is considered money to put into the next PCP as deposit. You can put a deposit down of up to 30% of RRP for VWs and 50% on Audiis, I'd assume the CUpra brand lies somewhere between those 2 figures. That Equity goes in as a large deposit, and what are you left with on your monthlies? Somewhere close to your current monthlies hopefully.

If you want a Born quickly, i'd be jumping all over these in stock cars intended to be demos, because once they're gone, you'll be in the same long queue as the ID3s currently on order are. That might mean being a little less fussy on the spec (I ended up with an L-Tech pack that I wouldn't have ordered myself).
His: Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps, 58kWh Glacial White, 19" Hurricane Wheels - replaced ID3 PP Life
Hers: Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps Aurora Blue, replaced ID3 PP Family

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Post by Blackeunos » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:00 pm

monkeyhanger wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:34 pm
That all sounds a little odd.
That's what I was thinking, so spent some time trying to figure it out.

Went on to the finance calculator on the Cupra website to work it out and seems there were some errors/miscommunition in emails between me and the dealer.

Putting in the max deposit for the V1 the monthlies came out at £246, much closer to where I want to be... big balloon payment though, nearly £5k more than my current deal on the iD.3 Life.

Had a look at financing it through the bank on their PCP (4.9% instead of VWFS's 6%), monthlies came out at £244 and the GFV is only £850 more than my current deal! :D

There is a little estimation in the bank figures, but it will be within a couple of hundred quid.

A bit more work with looking at selling via motorway and the total to change could reduce further, currently it will cost me an extra £1800 over the 4 year agreement to go to the Cupra V1, which will gain 50ps (bigger motor) and alloys.... :?:
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July 22 on - Cupra Born V1, Vapor grey, Tech Pack L, 19" Typhoon alloys

Scratch
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Post by Scratch » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:05 pm

Blackeunos wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:00 pm
monkeyhanger wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:34 pm
That all sounds a little odd.
That's what I was thinking, so spent some time trying to figure it out.

Went on to the finance calculator on the Cupra website to work it out and seems there were some errors/miscommunition in emails between me and the dealer.

Putting in the max deposit for the V1 the monthlies came out at £246, much closer to where I want to be... big balloon payment though, nearly £5k more than my current deal on the iD.3 Life.

Had a look at financing it through the bank on their PCP (4.9% instead of VWFS's 6%), monthlies came out at £244 and the GFV is only £850 more than my current deal! :D

There is a little estimation in the bank figures, but it will be within a couple of hundred quid.

A bit more work with looking at selling via motorway and the total to change could reduce further, currently it will cost me an extra £1800 over the 4 year agreement to go to the Cupra V1, which will gain 50ps (bigger motor) and alloys.... :?:
If it’s not too cheeky, what is the mileage on your ID3? Just investigating regarding my possible sale to Motorwy.

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Post by monkeyhanger » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:40 pm

Just complete the initial estimate on the motorway website and see what comes up. I beat their price twice (not by much, so the estimates seem accurate).

I really do think you'll need to be quick if you want to snap up a Born already built and waiting to go.
His: Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps, 58kWh Glacial White, 19" Hurricane Wheels - replaced ID3 PP Life
Hers: Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps Aurora Blue, replaced ID3 PP Family

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Blackeunos
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Post by Blackeunos » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:02 pm

I can't seem to find a spec list for the Born to see all of the differences, but from what I've seen...

Born V1
+ alloys, bucket seats, rear view camera, +50ps, 12" screen

iD.3 Life Pro
+ heated front seats, wireless phone charging
2016-2021 - Nissan Leaf Tekna 24
Sept 21-Jul 22- VW ID.3 Life Pro Moonstone
July 22 on - Cupra Born V1, Vapor grey, Tech Pack L, 19" Typhoon alloys

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davidwalton
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Post by davidwalton » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:06 pm

I can't help thinking that while the Born externally looks good - 'good' as in a body-kit modified ID3 - that ID3 looks fantastic in the shot of it on the transporter at the start of the thread. Maybe it's the angle!
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Post by Blackeunos » Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:31 pm

davidwalton wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:06 pm
I can't help thinking that while the Born externally looks good - 'good' as in a body-kit modified ID3 - that ID3 looks fantastic in the shot of it on the transporter at the start of the thread. Maybe it's the angle!
I think the iD.3 is the more 'honest' design, as it is as the platform was originally intended, whereas the Born is a developed/modified design.

I do prefer the side, rear and 3/4 profiles of the iD.3, but the front of the Born is that bit sharper and less 'vague', if that's the right term...
2016-2021 - Nissan Leaf Tekna 24
Sept 21-Jul 22- VW ID.3 Life Pro Moonstone
July 22 on - Cupra Born V1, Vapor grey, Tech Pack L, 19" Typhoon alloys

Scratch
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Post by Scratch » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:01 am

monkeyhanger wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:40 pm
Just complete the initial estimate on the motorway website and see what comes up. I beat their price twice (not by much, so the estimates seem accurate).

I really do think you'll need to be quick if you want to snap up a Born already built and waiting to go.
The Motorway initial estimate - is that the target figure? i.e. it may or may not be beaten? If it doesn't reach that target, do they expect you to accept whatever the lower figure comes out as?
Sorry to treat you as the guru on this subject, but I couldn't find anything about this on their website.

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Derekosb
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Post by Derekosb » Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:58 am

Well my ID.3 turned up for sale on the dealer's website this morning:

https://www.parkwayvolkswagen.co.uk/use ... cier-white

Parkway Advert.jpg


gailjon
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Post by gailjon » Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:29 am

I have no idea how my wife is going to change her ID3 when the time comes when we see how much used vehicles are going for! Unfortunately, like house, the higher the old is worth, the more the new costs.
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Post by monkeyhanger » Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:44 am

Scratch wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:01 am
monkeyhanger wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:40 pm
Just complete the initial estimate on the motorway website and see what comes up. I beat their price twice (not by much, so the estimates seem accurate).

I really do think you'll need to be quick if you want to snap up a Born already built and waiting to go.
The Motorway initial estimate - is that the target figure? i.e. it may or may not be beaten? If it doesn't reach that target, do they expect you to accept whatever the lower figure comes out as?
Sorry to treat you as the guru on this subject, but I couldn't find anything about this on their website.
That figure is the target figure for your car, based on previous sales of cars of your type, usually it is set at your "reserve" for the auction they hold - if it beats that price, they'll say your car is "sold" (although you can still change your mind at this point. You can agree a reserve price wherever you want, but the initial estimate is probably a fair price to draw your bottom line at.

Once your car is considered sold, the buyer will want scans of your V5 and drivers license to prove the car's credentials and they'll send someone up to take a quick look to see it is as described, ring their boss, get payment by BACs to you and then drive off with it.
His: Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps, 58kWh Glacial White, 19" Hurricane Wheels - replaced ID3 PP Life
Hers: Cupra Born V2 e-boost 230ps Aurora Blue, replaced ID3 PP Family

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