Ohme Charge. Data charges possible

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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

This is what Ohme stated:

"All of our chargers come with 3 years free SIM services.

Unfortunately, I don't have any confirmed information about the cost of the SIM connection after the first three years. We are working on continuing the complimentary connection for the lifetime of the charger, however, if there is a cost it will be around £2 per month."

£24 a year and annual increases is possible. This is why I some prefer wifi.

I may cancel my Ohme order and get Wallbox (down to two chargers for £850).
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Are you still bleating on about possible Ohme charges for data in years time? Are you being paid by Wallbox/podpoint to discredit Ohme?

There is no confirmation either way as you won't find any company that'll commit 100% to being free to connect to servers in 5 or10 years time. Having WiFi isn't a guarantee there's no way to charge you to access smart features in future.

I don't know anyone with an Ohme that's had bother with it, unlike plenty of other chargers (scheduling issues and failure to charge overnight).

I don't honestly think it'll be worth their while chasing £2 a month, in admin costs alone.

Another useless thread raised for things that have been discussed so many times before by the OP.
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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

I just quoted their latest response. If it is not worth billing monthly they can do it annually or charge £5 a month to keep you happy.
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chrisfs
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Post by chrisfs »

Please Cherry, just get the Wallbox.

Damn, I bit!
Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

chrisfs wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:25 pm Please Cherry, just get the Wallbox.

Damn, I bit!
Have you considered they do not say what their charges will be for their software services after 3 years? Will they be free?
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13 Sep 21 PCP approved. VW No: 3131xxxx
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Cherry wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:39 pm I just quoted their latest response. If it is not worth billing monthly they can do it annually or charge £5 a month to keep you happy.
You are spouting utter speculative crap. They've said they have no plans to introduce charges and you can't accept that as their current stance. I suppose most manufacturers will say the same if asked, but if wallbox change their mind in future to charge you to log in to their servers, what are you going to do about that?

I have not heard of anyone here having a negative experience with ordering and installation of an Ohme.
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mediaguy
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Post by mediaguy »

I'm taking Cherry's side here. I looked at Ohme, Indra and Zappi and discounted Ohme because I have excellent internet and poor mobile signal. For anything with a SIM I'm thinking "what happens when vodafone starts increasing their prices to get people to switch from sim to esim". There's going to be a bunch of legacy products these mobile companies will grow to hate in 5-10 years time and the "lump of plastic that clicks a switch to turn on the electric through a thick cable" could easily fit into that time range.

It's not that it's bad, it's not that it's unaffordable, just if you're doing a pro/con list of chargers, what happens when the sim card changes and the manufacturer has no control over what the mobile company tells them. (I also accept that isn't the exact argument Cherry is making)
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

You could turn that argument on its head if you've got poor WiFi to your charger location, but decent mobile phone signal coverage (which is probably most people in an urban area where the charger is situated outside rather than within a garage attached to the house)

It's more the fact that he's bringing up the same thing in multiple threads and starting new threads to do it. The thread could have quite easily been called " Anderson/Podpoint/Wallpoint/Zapping charger. Connection charges possible" because they don't know what's happening in 10 years either.

No-one knows what's happening in 10 years time and to constantly bang the same drum for Ohme not being able to categorically say what's happening in 10 years time (and not considering that any other manufacturer might do the same) is verging on misinformation.
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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

I am glad someone else considers the issues. It is not that it is unaffordable. It is a hidden cost.

Ohme have confirmed they do not know whether there will be charges. This is not misinformation. It is a fact.

The thread is about Ohme data plans, hence the thread title. There is no need to post abuse if you do not agree with data cost issues. Just don't respond to the thread!

Imagine the charger lasts for 10 years. 7 years of data charges = 7 x £24 = £168. With just inflationary increases this is c£200. This is the additional cost of the charger. Can Ohme afford to absorb £200 per charger? Okay their costs may be half this. I can imagine them saying sim costs are £5 a month = £60 a year = £420+ for 7 years. A great revenue model and cheaper than getting a new charger. Suddenly the Ohme is much more expensive than competitors.

What if the mobile signal reception changes? One has more control over their own wifi and location of a router. I would have thought one would design as the charger as dual wifi/sim. I have excellent wifi. Mobile signal depends on the network. O2/Vodafone is fine and 3 is useless for me, despite being opposite a university with 30k students. Yet 5 years ago 3 was fine.

I accept the Ohme appears a good charger and their support response is probably the fastest of any competitor. I cannot fault them on speed of response. But, I am shocked that they do not make future costs transparent. The product has been on the market some time. They have had ample time to be transparent about future costs and plan. They could use data as an ongoing revenue model. There are a business after all. I think I would, else I would combine it with a maintenance contract. £100 a year for extended on-site warranty and data after year 3 + inflation. Pay something, or be left with a dumb charger.

I do fault them on installation costs. Ohme cannot find a single independent installer to install at their from price (I have a simple install). Only Octopus can yet after 3 weeks of paying them, I have had no contact from their end at all. I have chased and am only told someone will call me. Nothing so far except the arrival of a unit from Ohme out of the blue. Ohme said Octopus asked them to send it. This is not Ohme's fault, but it is the fault of Octopus Energy.
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13 Sep 21 PCP approved. VW No: 3131xxxx
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MotMot
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Post by MotMot »

🤦‍♂️ this same Q has been raised before by the OP I believe.

The simple answer is if you want to continue using 3/4G connection after three years you can buy data sims - exactly like the ones in the chargers for £15 or less. That last for another three years. Or you can revert to using the WiFi.

What’s the problem?? (That’s a rhetorical Q btw - please don’t bother answering it 😁)
Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

MotMot wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:45 am 🤦‍♂️ this same Q has been raised before by the OP I believe.

The simple answer is if you want to continue using 3/4G connection after three years you can buy data sims - exactly like the ones in the chargers for £15 or less. That last for another three years. Or you can revert to using the WiFi.

What’s the problem?? (That’s a rhetorical Q btw - please don’t bother answering it 😁)
Are you saying the Ohme has the option of using Wifi? Does it? I do not think it does. I may be wrong.

Are you saying the end user has simple access to change a data sim themselves and get it to work?

Ohme's fast response: "No unfortunately you can't insert your own SIM. There is no option to use WIFI with our charger."
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13 Sep 21 PCP approved. VW No: 3131xxxx
24 Sep 21 Temp build wk43, conf' 46
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Cherry wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:41 am I am glad someone else considers the issues. It is not that it is unaffordable. It is a hidden cost.

Ohme have confirmed they do not know whether there will be charges. This is not misinformation. It is a fact.

The thread is about Ohme data plans, hence the thread title. There is no need to post abuse if you do not agree with data cost issues. Just don't respond to the thread!

Imagine the charger lasts for 10 years. 7 years of data charges = 7 x £24 = £168. With just inflationary increases this is c£200. This is the additional cost of the charger. Can Ohme afford to absorb £200 per charger? Okay their costs may be half this. I can imagine them saying sim costs are £5 a month = £60 a year = £420+ for 7 years. A great revenue model and cheaper than getting a new charger. Suddenly the Ohme is much more expensive than competitors.

What if the mobile signal reception changes? One has more control over their own wifi and location of a router. I would have thought one would design as the charger as dual wifi/sim. I have excellent wifi. Mobile signal depends on the network. O2/Vodafone is fine and 3 is useless for me, despite being opposite a university with 30k students. Yet 5 years ago 3 was fine.

I accept the Ohme appears a good charger and their support response is probably the fastest of any competitor. I cannot fault them on speed of response. But, I am shocked that they do not make future costs transparent. The product has been on the market some time. They have had ample time to be transparent about future costs and plan. They could use data as an ongoing revenue model. There are a business after all. I think I would, else I would combine it with a maintenance contract. £100 a year for extended on-site warranty and data after year 3 + inflation. Pay something, or be left with a dumb charger.

I do fault them on installation costs. Ohme cannot find a single independent installer to install at their from price (I have a simple install). Only Octopus can yet after 3 weeks of paying them, I have had no contact from their end at all. I have chased and am only told someone will call me. Nothing so far except the arrival of a unit from Ohme out of the blue. Ohme said Octopus asked them to send it. This is not Ohme's fault, but it is the fault of Octopus Energy.
More speculative nonsense because you assume there will be mounting SIM charges in the future and put a figure on that speculation. Ohme don't know what they might do in 10 years time, and nor do any other charger companies. Have you had a concrete declaration from the others that they will never charge you for support/updates etc beyond 3 years after installation? Thought not.
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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

monkeyhanger wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:52 pm
IMore speculative nonsense because you assume there will be mounting SIM charges in the future and put a figure on that speculation. Ohme don't know what they might do in 10 years time, and nor do any other charger companies. Have you had a concrete declaration from the others that they will never charge you for support/updates etc beyond 3 years after installation? Thought not.
More speculative nonsense from you. Two people can post abuse.

Do you have it in writing that there will be no charges after 3 years? Have you asked them?
I have.
They say it may be free and if not it may be £2 a month. This is £24 a year. If there is a charge, common sense dictates they increase in the future.
If you do not pay you will have a dumb charger.
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monkeyhanger
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Post by monkeyhanger »

Cherry wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:13 pm
monkeyhanger wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:52 pm
IMore speculative nonsense because you assume there will be mounting SIM charges in the future and put a figure on that speculation. Ohme don't know what they might do in 10 years time, and nor do any other charger companies. Have you had a concrete declaration from the others that they will never charge you for support/updates etc beyond 3 years after installation? Thought not.
More speculative nonsense from you. Two people can post abuse.

Do you have it in writing that there will be no charges after 3 years? Have you asked them?
I have.
They say it may be free and if not it may be £2 a month. This is £24 a year. If there is a charge, common sense dictates they increase in the future.
If you do not pay you will have a dumb charger.
So I take it that you haven't had a concrete response for other contenders to unequivocally declare there will be no future charges? If that is the case then your statement will equally apply to any other charger that they "may" add charges in future for updates, tech support etc. beyond warranty.

It's like a newspaper putting out a headline that British Airways could be bust in 10 years time, with no solid facts to back it up and neglecting to mention that Etihad, American Airlines etc. have a similar likelihood of being bust in 10 years time, based on nothing but the complete unknown.
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Cherry
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Post by Cherry »

monkeyhanger wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:31 pm So I take it that you haven't had a concrete response for other contenders to unequivocally declare there will be no future charges? If that is the case then your statement will equally apply to any other charger that they "may" add charges in future for updates, tech support etc. beyond warranty.

It's like a newspaper putting out a headline that British Airways could be bust in 10 years time, with no solid facts to back it up and neglecting to mention that Etihad, American Airlines etc. have a similar likelihood of being bust in 10 years time, based on nothing but the complete unknown.
Most do not use sim cards. They use wifi, so there are no additional data costs.

If you suggest that there are costs to use the app, then Ohme has a data cost + app cost.
Most others may have an app cost.

I have posed the question to Wallbox, but they do not respond as quickly as Ohme, which appears to have the best response time, by far.

My be VW will learn how to write software that works and its scheduling software will work soon, so it may not matter anyway.
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sidehaas
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Post by sidehaas »

Many people have a weak WiFi signal outside their house at a chargepoint, a weak 4g signal, or both. It's more sensible to buy the solution which you think will work best in your location than to be overly influenced by a possible small future charge. It's in the noise on a £30k car purchase.
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ItshardtobuyId3
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Post by ItshardtobuyId3 »

Got my Ohme installed today, it does look smart!

I was aware of the potential issue of connectivity in the future before I ordered it but decided it’s probably a non-issue.

As others have said, there is nothing to stop other charger manufacturers charging a subscription to enable the smart functions in the future. It is also more than likely retaining the smart capabilities of the charger with be worthwhile to energy providers in the future for grid balancing or special tariffs so it’s pretty unlikely Ohme will start charging a subscription. Even if they do the car can do most of the smart functions anyway.

Even if they do charge £2 a month or something it’s a drop in the ocean. Aside from that the simplicity of using mobile over WiFi was something I’d not considered. The installer asked me to install the app then register an account. The app asks to use the camera, I then point it under the new charger at the QR code and the screen on charger changes as it registers to me and the app runs me through the rest.

No WiFi passwords or anything like that, if I change internet provider (which I do every 2 years pretty much) no setup faff to go though again.
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

ItshardtobuyId3 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:20 pm Got my Ohme installed today, it does look smart!

I was aware of the potential issue of connectivity in the future before I ordered it but decided it’s probably a non-issue.

As others have said, there is nothing to stop other charger manufacturers charging a subscription to enable the smart functions in the future. It is also more than likely retaining the smart capabilities of the charger with be worthwhile to energy providers in the future for grid balancing or special tariffs so it’s pretty unlikely Ohme will start charging a subscription. Even if they do the car can do most of the smart functions anyway.

Even if they do charge £2 a month or something it’s a drop in the ocean. Aside from that the simplicity of using mobile over WiFi was something I’d not considered. The installer asked me to install the app then register an account. The app asks to use the camera, I then point it under the new charger at the QR code and the screen on charger changes as it registers to me and the app runs me through the rest.

No WiFi passwords or anything like that, if I change internet provider (which I do every 2 years pretty much) no setup faff to go though again.

Did you get the Home Pro installed ? If so I'd love to see what you think of it.
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ItshardtobuyId3
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Post by ItshardtobuyId3 »

Utumno wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:47 pm
ItshardtobuyId3 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:20 pm Got my Ohme installed today, it does look smart!

I was aware of the potential issue of connectivity in the future before I ordered it but decided it’s probably a non-issue.

As others have said, there is nothing to stop other charger manufacturers charging a subscription to enable the smart functions in the future. It is also more than likely retaining the smart capabilities of the charger with be worthwhile to energy providers in the future for grid balancing or special tariffs so it’s pretty unlikely Ohme will start charging a subscription. Even if they do the car can do most of the smart functions anyway.

Even if they do charge £2 a month or something it’s a drop in the ocean. Aside from that the simplicity of using mobile over WiFi was something I’d not considered. The installer asked me to install the app then register an account. The app asks to use the camera, I then point it under the new charger at the QR code and the screen on charger changes as it registers to me and the app runs me through the rest.

No WiFi passwords or anything like that, if I change internet provider (which I do every 2 years pretty much) no setup faff to go though again.

Did you get the Home Pro installed ? If so I'd love to see what you think of it.
It looks good and I’m please with it but I won’t know properly until the car comes.

There are a couple of things about it that aren’t obvious and could be made better.

There is no lock function in the app but it can be looked by setting a charge schedule with a target of 0%. It appears with that you can lock it for certain periods which is good but it’s a bit ambiguous. It also says you can override with max boost on the charger itself but that would defeat the object. I can’t tell until I plug a car. A simple lock switch in the app would be simpler, less ambiguous and easy to do so I can’t understand why it doesn’t have one.

If I select Octopus energy as my provider it says it can’t find my tariff. It will find all the other electric car tariffs except the one I’m actually getting, which is a bit disappointing. I entered it all manually but it’s not a great start. I’ve asked support about it and am guessing it’s postcode related.

Restricting the charge to cheap periods exclusively is not obvious how to do. There are no start times only end times but eventually I find the setting via the settings icon in the scheduling section. It isn’t in the normal settings section.

One thing it can do I didn’t know about is if the price restriction isn’t set and it thinks it can’t get to the target battery in the cheap period then it will start charging straight away then stop and finish the job in the cheap window. Unfortunately this won’t work properly with the ID3 from what I can tell as it can’t access the car from an API yet! Will be good when it can though.

So overall it good but a bit unintuitive to setup. I forgot to says, yes it’s the home pro.
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Utumno
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Post by Utumno »

ItshardtobuyId3 wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:02 am
Utumno wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:47 pm
ItshardtobuyId3 wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:20 pm Got my Ohme installed today, it does look smart!

I was aware of the potential issue of connectivity in the future before I ordered it but decided it’s probably a non-issue.

As others have said, there is nothing to stop other charger manufacturers charging a subscription to enable the smart functions in the future. It is also more than likely retaining the smart capabilities of the charger with be worthwhile to energy providers in the future for grid balancing or special tariffs so it’s pretty unlikely Ohme will start charging a subscription. Even if they do the car can do most of the smart functions anyway.

Even if they do charge £2 a month or something it’s a drop in the ocean. Aside from that the simplicity of using mobile over WiFi was something I’d not considered. The installer asked me to install the app then register an account. The app asks to use the camera, I then point it under the new charger at the QR code and the screen on charger changes as it registers to me and the app runs me through the rest.

No WiFi passwords or anything like that, if I change internet provider (which I do every 2 years pretty much) no setup faff to go though again.

Did you get the Home Pro installed ? If so I'd love to see what you think of it.
It looks good and I’m please with it but I won’t know properly until the car comes.

There are a couple of things about it that aren’t obvious and could be made better.

There is no lock function in the app but it can be looked by setting a charge schedule with a target of 0%. It appears with that you can lock it for certain periods which is good but it’s a bit ambiguous. It also says you can override with max boost on the charger itself but that would defeat the object. I can’t tell until I plug a car. A simple lock switch in the app would be simpler, less ambiguous and easy to do so I can’t understand why it doesn’t have one.

If I select Octopus energy as my provider it says it can’t find my tariff. It will find all the other electric car tariffs except the one I’m actually getting, which is a bit disappointing. I entered it all manually but it’s not a great start. I’ve asked support about it and am guessing it’s postcode related.

Restricting the charge to cheap periods exclusively is not obvious how to do. There are no start times only end times but eventually I find the setting via the settings icon in the scheduling section. It isn’t in the normal settings section.

One thing it can do I didn’t know about is if the price restriction isn’t set and it thinks it can’t get to the target battery in the cheap period then it will start charging straight away then stop and finish the job in the cheap window. Unfortunately this won’t work properly with the ID3 from what I can tell as it can’t access the car from an API yet! Will be good when it can though.

So overall it good but a bit unintuitive to setup. I forgot to says, yes it’s the home pro.

Fantastic, thank you very much!
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