Range degradation

[Utumno]

I too didn’t fully appreciate that the real world range would be down at 80 miles at times in winter. Still, manageable for me at the moment with a home charger.

You're getting an 80 mile range in an ID3?

80 miles out, 80 miles back is what I expect the OP meant, so ~160 miles of range.

[monkeyhanger]

Thanks for all the responses. This has been a bit of a learning experience. I've returned the car to the dealer today and agreed a refund of what I paid, less £1k, due to them and VW's marketing material not clearly explaining the deterioration in range performance to be expected during the winter. I can't accept a maximum of 75 miles each way trip during the winter (over 30% reduction) as the maximum range for a car priced at over £30k.

There's me thinking you would get more than you paid for it!

Well, I did actually by £4k, due to the rather generous trade in value I got for my old car

I would still see what the motorway.co.uk valuation is for the ID3 - you may want to sell it to them, it could be worth more than what you paid right now, due to the car stock shortages.

[Deleted User 192]

I too didn’t fully appreciate that the real world range would be down at 80 miles at times in winter. Still, manageable for me at the moment with a home charger.

I do a LOT of the worst types of journeys for efficiency, short drives from cold, and I would always get 140-150 miles no matter what. Where does 80 miles come from?

[monkeyhanger]

I too didn’t fully appreciate that the real world range would be down at 80 miles at times in winter. Still, manageable for me at the moment with a home charger.

I do a LOT of the worst types of journeys for efficiency, short drives from cold, and I would always get 140-150 miles no matter what. Where does 80 miles come from?

I'm assuming they mean down by 80 miles vs Summer range, unless they do a load of 2 mile journeys from cold to see that.

Worst economy figure I've seen is 1.9.miles per kWh, literally a 2 mile school run round trip at 1C.

[phixion]

I seem to be getting 200 miles @ 80% charge in this weather on my Tour.

Dealer charged it to 100% when I collected, I think it was around 280 miles.

[Deleted User 192]

I too didn’t fully appreciate that the real world range would be down at 80 miles at times in winter. Still, manageable for me at the moment with a home charger.

I do a LOT of the worst types of journeys for efficiency, short drives from cold, and I would always get 140-150 miles no matter what. Where does 80 miles come from?

I'm assuming they mean down by 80 miles vs Summer range

That would make a lot more sense.

[Daveion]

I think if you calculate range from % drop in soc on a short run on a cold day with the heater on you end up with crazy low projected ranges. Is that why some of these threads report such huge reductions? Is that a realistic method?
I only look at projected range after charging.
In the Summer months that was around 270 miles
Now in Winter its around 220 miles.
Although its not yet bitter, maybe 6C or so, I preheat the cabin, heater at 19C, and drive the same way I drive my ICE. Currently not any motorway miles but plenty of 60+ dual carriageway miles and slow heavy traffic trips. Probably don't average more than 25mph.
I see the winter reduction but honestly just couldnt be more pleased with my car and its overall performance.

[ItshardtobuyId3]

I think if you calculate range from % drop in soc on a short run on a cold day with the heater on you end up with crazy low projected ranges. Is that why some of these threads report such huge reductions? Is that a realistic method?
I only look at projected range after charging.
In the Summer months that was around 270 miles
Now in Winter its around 220 miles.
Although its not yet bitter, maybe 6C or so, I preheat the cabin, heater at 19C, and drive the same way I drive my ICE. Currently not any motorway miles but plenty of 60+ dual carriageway miles and slow heavy traffic trips. Probably don't average more than 25mph.
I see the winter reduction but honestly just couldnt be more pleased with my car and its overall performance.

Sound about right to me. I read or watched a video somewhere that said if the batteries are being heated by the BMS then that uses around 7kW.

If that’s true and you add in cabin heating then you are probably using 10kW for the first few minutes when using the car in very cold conditions so would get terrible range with frequent short journeys. On longer journeys it would mainly be the cabin heater.

I’m still waiting for my car so I’m just making a semi educated guess but would expect the trip computer to underestimate range until the batteries have warmed up.

I don’t suppose it’s that much different to idling an ICE car while defrosting it but instead of looking at the fuel gauge, looking at the range.

I only really do long trips in the summer and the one I do most is possible on one away charge. If I was regularly doing a 160 mile return trip in winter then I’d probably have concluded that an EV I can afford doesn’t suit my life yet.

[Daveion]

[quote=Daveion post_id=16193 time=1639256345 user_i

"If that’s true and you add in cabin heating then you are probably using 10kW for the first few minutes when using the car in very cold conditions so would get terrible range with frequent short journeys. On longer journeys it would mainly be the cabin heater."

That's correct. Some of these points are hard to grasp until you have a BEV. It's taken me best part of a year and it's this.
If I'm doing endless short trips I ignore the range. I know from experience that my car will cover 170 miles on a 0C day because I have done that. I don't look at my ICE remaining mileage I look at the fuel gauge. I think horror stories on range come mainly from people who extrapolate range from a short trip and that is not realistic.

[MotMot]

Yes the first hit of the battery heater is significant. Yesterday a case in point. 8 mile journey to a pub for lunch - used 10% getting there from a 5 degree start.

I then had to make the same journey three times (forgot the lads coat) back - there and back again - which used just over 10%.

[Daveion]

Yes the first hit of the battery heater is significant. Yesterday a case in point. 8 mile journey to a pub for lunch - used 10% getting there from a 5 degree start.

I then had to make the same journey three times (forgot the lads coat) back - there and back again - which used just over 10%.

Case in point. That is an 80 mile range if you extrapolate soc decrease with miles covered. Technically correct but completely misleading.

[MotMot]

Indeed. And this morning 12 degrees - 4-5 mile trip to take the lad to Rugby and I’ve used 2%… ish.

[Daveion]

I respond to these posts because I dont like to see people put off of the car with misleading information.
I think if an ICE predominantly reported litres or gallons used/mile there would exactly the same horror stories with range.
With the BEV its important to be aware of the reduced range in cold weather but to also understand why and how it relates to your ownership and usage.

[Smitten]

I respond to these posts because I dont like to see people put off of the car with misleading information.
I think if an ICE predominantly reported litres or gallons used/mile there would exactly the same horror stories with range.
With the BEV its important to be aware of the reduced range in cold weather but to also understand why and how it relates to your ownership and usage.

Agree completely. Cold weather is just something you need to plan for and work around. We already have an EV so once you have had some winter experience you are prepared and know what to expect.

[ItshardtobuyId3]

I respond to these posts because I dont like to see people put off of the car with misleading information.
I think if an ICE predominantly reported litres or gallons used/mile there would exactly the same horror stories with range.
With the BEV its important to be aware of the reduced range in cold weather but to also understand why and how it relates to your ownership and usage.

Yeah, it just a matter of changing how people think about their cars. I found out about the 7kW battery heating and the recommendation not go below 40% battery shortly after I ordered my car but decided it didn’t matter. It just means I’ll plug it into the charger more in winter.

It also meant I ordered my home charger sooner as I was planning to see how I got on with a granny cable plugged into my garage be realised that wouldn’t work out with cheap overnight rates in winter. Was kinda a happy accident really because I didn’t realise the charger grant was ending in March so I’d have missed it!!

[AndersG]

We see that a lot now when it is colder. Wife drives to work and it is about 14km there (no public transport available), so she gets two cold starts per day which affects mileage.

I also see a lot of ICE owners misunderstanding how you use an EV, ie that you ideally charge at home and at work if needed, when the car is stationary anyway. Ie you do not drive to the pump to charge, unless it is a long journey.

[EVOWNER101]

I am not quite sure why range in winter comes as such a surprise. When going from ICE to EV ownership in 2019 I researched everything I could about the EGolf and living with an EV. With limited battery size I made sure as much as possible the EGolf and its ownership was going to be suitable. I even put a spreadsheet together detailing WLTP miles, real world miles, driving styles, distance I needed to travel every day, battery charge levels, effects of winter on the battery, likely max distance needed for a detour, etc. Only when I satisfied myself that it would all work for me, did I choose the EGolf rather than a Kona for example. My end goal was always to swap out to an EV from VW that delivered close to 300 miles at some point. So that came into the equation too.

[Daveion]

I am not quite sure why range in winter comes as such a surprise. When going from ICE to EV ownership in 2019 I researched everything I could about the EGolf and living with an EV. With limited battery size I made sure as much as possible the EGolf and its ownership was going to be suitable. I even put a spreadsheet together detailing WLTP miles, real world miles, driving styles, distance I needed to travel every day, battery charge levels, effects of winter on the battery, likely max distance needed for a detour, etc. Only when I satisfied myself that it would all work for me, did I choose the EGolf rather than a Kona for example. My end goal was always to swap out to an EV from VW that delivered close to 300 miles at some point. So that came into the equation too.

I agree and I did similar. Some don't though, no research at all. There was one post not so far back from a new irate member who had their car a week and was writing to VW to complain about the range as it was such a surprise to them. The following posts asked everything except whether they had been living in a cave.
What annoys me though is the misleading information. I watched a a YouTube video today from EV Owner who did a winter range test and because they did a run and only managed 1mile/kW they stated that this was a range of 58 miles. The maths is correct but it's nonsense and misleading.

[tomstring]

Is the home charger grant finishing?

[morrishey]

Is the home charger grant finishing?

Sort of.

See the grey box a little way down this page https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... n-vehicles