Electric cars now more expensive per mile than diesel

[smyth1492]

Just returned from a 450mile round in the UK and fast charging is now working out more expensive than taking our diesel car.

That as well as the much shorter range at this time of year, poor placement of rapid chargers, inability of them to be functioning correctly (osprey would not accept my We Charge card despite being on the approved list), lack of 100kw chargers, insistence of the car satnav wanting to reroute (consumption too high to reach destination) even though there is enough range makes me wonder why I run an electric car and not by any normal person would bother (my wife could not be bothered despite caring for the environment)

It’s doomed really - shame really as the car is great

[Deleted User 314]

That is a sad state of affairs indeed.

We are still in the fortunate position of charging (up to 50kwh) being free.

[Chris]

At work we’ve been told that our ev’s are going back and the new ones will be swapped to petrol or diesel.

Too expensive and not worth the hassle being the reason, a real shame and I don’t think it’s going to look good for the governments targets

[N21]

At work we’ve been told that our ev’s are going back and the new ones will be swapped to petrol or diesel.

Too expensive and not worth the hassle being the reason, a real shame and I don’t think it’s going to look good for the governments targets

This is beyond depressing to read. We're heading into climate extinction and we're regressing back to fossil fuels?

[sidehaas]

Just returned from a 450mile round in the UK and fast charging is now working out more expensive than taking our diesel car.

That as well as the much shorter range at this time of year, poor placement of rapid chargers, inability of them to be functioning correctly (osprey would not accept my We Charge card despite being on the approved list), lack of 100kw chargers, insistence of the car satnav wanting to reroute (consumption too high to reach destination) even though there is enough range makes me wonder why I run an electric car and not by any normal person would bother (my wife could not be bothered despite caring for the environment)

It’s doomed really - shame really as the car is great

Obviously this depends on what proportion of your journey you can charge at home for. If you charge universally at 65p/kWh and are looking at motorway journeys where EVs are least efficient and diesels most, then yes you are right. On the other hand EVs remain cheaper even at that price if you are doing local journeys where EVs are more efficient and a diesel would struggle to beat 35-40mpg. If you can charge at home for local journeys there is no comparison.

Fwiw I am taking the ID3 on an 1100 mile return trip to France next week. With approximately 200 miles at 7.5p (home rate), 400 miles at UK motorway pricing (66p Gridserve hub) and 500 miles on Ionity (45p with my current deal) it'll cost about £170 at 3mi/kWh (this is driving how I want to and not going out of my way - I accept it could be done more cheaply by choosing my charging stops for price and by driving everywhere at 65). In my diesel, at 50mpg (about what I always get on this trip) and £1.80 per litre, it would cost about £180.

You can turn off the auto rerouting (adding charge stops if you are predicted to arrive on low SoC) in the navigation settings menu.

[OB1CCFC]

These gloom and doom comparisons need to consider the price of fuel at motorway service stations (they usually don’t).
Also 450 miles isn’t that much to draw a conclusion, especially as usually much of that would be covered by a home charge before departure.
But yes pricing for On-The-Go EV charging is very disappointing given the climate crisis. It needed government intervention some time ago. But hey bankers bonuses are more important, right??

[smyth1492]

Interesting comments and I accept there is some home charging in my journey. My main point was when not charging at home and using the car to conduct the same journey's that I do in my diesel then, excluding the home charge element, financially its not worth it. To compound the cost problem, my Honda CR-V bought 18 months old was £22,000 (in 2018), its a Euro 6 engine so almost as clean as you can get. I could easily go and buy another Euro 6 diesel for £15000 and have a good car. My ID.3 cost £35,000, this is heading for double what I have ever paid for a car.

Of the 6,500 miles I have driven in the 5 months I have had the car, 1/2 of this has been off of the public charging network. I don't know where the 45p charging on Ionity France came from as its far more than that in my usage (and the We Charge card does not give discounted rate in France)

I am not comparing motorway service stations fuel cost as its a non-start argument IMHO, I can get almost anywhere in the country that I need to go on 1 tank of fuel in my diesel and most of the time there and back without a top-up or refill. (in 25+ years of driving I have never used a motorway services for fuel). In a couple of weeks time I'm going Andover to near Barnstaple (destination is in the countryside) and back for the weekend and I'm likely to take the diesel because of the difficulty in charging although I want to take the electric car and prefer to.

My main point is, I suspect a lot of us on this forum (and others like it) have chosen to adopt an EV because its the right thing to do (over a long time to offset the environmental impact of car manufacture and recycle). However, we represent only a small percentage of the population and I would like to hazard a guess, as we have these cars, we are able to afford them. The rest of the population, can't afford them, don't have access to home charging, won't put up with the hassle of charging etc etc.

Now when there are a significantly larger no. of 100+kw charging points and you can 'plug and charge' without doing anything at the charger and the cost of the KW electric is back to being a little more sensible we have half a chance of the uptake changing. Until then this is a non-starter. The useless government is going to fail us miserably and we are going to end up with a massive uptake of new petrol/diesel cars being sold before 2030 and/or imports from other countries.

[Chris]

These gloom and doom comparisons need to consider the price of fuel at motorway service stations (they usually don’t).

This keeps coming up and it’s simply stupid, over 20 years of driving and I’ve never used the petrol station at services but have to use them to charge on a regular basis

[OB1CCFC]

Motorway service stations do get a steady stream of custom and are profitably so I’m not sure they are completely irrelevant for long motorway trips.
I bought my ID3 for £30k and sold it 2 years and 18,000 miles later for £33k. So right now they are almost an investment (although obv price is a huge barrier and needs to be addressed. We’re still at ‘first mover’ stage tbh).

[sidehaas]

Interesting comments and I accept there is some home charging in my journey. My main point was when not charging at home and using the car to conduct the same journey's that I do in my diesel then, excluding the home charge element, financially its not worth it. To compound the cost problem, my Honda CR-V bought 18 months old was £22,000 (in 2018), its a Euro 6 engine so almost as clean as you can get. I could easily go and buy another Euro 6 diesel for £15000 and have a good car. My ID.3 cost £35,000, this is heading for double what I have ever paid for a car.

Of the 6,500 miles I have driven in the 5 months I have had the car, 1/2 of this has been off of the public charging network. I don't know where the 45p charging on Ionity France came from as its far more than that in my usage (and the We Charge card does not give discounted rate in France)

I am not comparing motorway service stations fuel cost as its a non-start argument IMHO, I can get almost anywhere in the country that I need to go on 1 tank of fuel in my diesel and most of the time there and back without a top-up or refill. (in 25+ years of driving I have never used a motorway services for fuel). In a couple of weeks time I'm going Andover to near Barnstaple (destination is in the countryside) and back for the weekend and I'm likely to take the diesel because of the difficulty in charging although I want to take the electric car and prefer to.

My main point is, I suspect a lot of us on this forum (and others like it) have chosen to adopt an EV because its the right thing to do (over a long time to offset the environmental impact of car manufacture and recycle). However, we represent only a small percentage of the population and I would like to hazard a guess, as we have these cars, we are able to afford them. The rest of the population, can't afford them, don't have access to home charging, won't put up with the hassle of charging etc etc.

Now when there are a significantly larger no. of 100+kw charging points and you can 'plug and charge' without doing anything at the charger and the cost of the KW electric is back to being a little more sensible we have half a chance of the uptake changing. Until then this is a non-starter. The useless government is going to fail us miserably and we are going to end up with a massive uptake of new petrol/diesel cars being sold before 2030 and/or imports from other countries.

Broadly agree that most people are not going to move to an EV on a cost argument. I also moved because it was 'the right thing to do' - I've never spent more than about £13k on a car before - but I was privileged to be able to afford to do that. There will have to be a lot more decent second hand EVs available in the £10-15k range before mass adoption can happen.
However I'll be a pedant on the details of your post. You claim you can get almost anywhere you want to go on a single tank of diesel. In that case you can get half way there on electric from home, which you haven't accounted for. So it's not a fair comparison. You also haven't considered slower shorter journeys, which make up the vast majority in the UK. EVs are much better for these because their efficiency is better.
(On a motorway my ID3 will do 3.5mi/kWh and my Octavia will do 50mpg. On a 40mph stop-start commute those figures change to about 4.5mi/kWh and 30mpg!)

[OB1CCFC]

The other perspective. Quite common for many people.
I live near Skipton West Yorkshire and my daughter in St Albans. 198 miles. Charge 100% at home, 7.5p per kWh, Do a comfort break in Milton Keynes Ionity and top up a bit to be safe (£10). Granny charge at my daughters. Similar stop off for the return at Markham vale.
EV’s are so cheap compared to diesels!

Also do a few holidays to the Lakes, Wales, North east that aren’t more than 200 miles return.
99% of my driving is around home.

In the end if you’re not a business user or a heavy tourer, EVs are still a great cheap choice…

[Raxacorico]

I've recently completed another "Long Haul" trip - over 1300 miles. The cost was £180.
In my last diesel; even at 50mpg, it would have cost me £235.
That's mostly re-charging on the M6 [Gridserve/Fastned] or Instavolt at the expanded fast charge set up just off junction 11 of the M40.
West Coast of Scotland to Kent and back, via mid-Wales, if you're wondering!

[smyth1492]

Just on the motorway range electric/diesel, it’s about 150 miles in the ID.3 80% to 10-15%, my diesel at the same speed is 550 or more so almost 4 charges

[MotMot]

Probably more like 350-400 if you did 80-10% of your tank of diesel!

[OB1CCFC]

Probably more like 350-400 if you did 80-10% of your tank of diesel!

Exactly.
Ps. If you are going on a long journey, charge to 100%. I do 90% overnight and finish the final 10% in the morning before setting off.
Pps. But it’s all about your personal requirements in the end. How many very long runs do you have well away from your home in a year?
If it’s significant have a look at the WeCharge subscriptions which will likely be of cost benefit. https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electri ... harge.html
(I used one on a trip to the Swiss border last summer and to Skye. Easily paid for itself).

[GCR50]

I don't disgree with any of the above.
To my mind everyone has a different valid perspective and experience.
I was fortunate to purchase a very nearly new ID.3 for £28k.
I recently part ex with the same dealer who gave me £36,500 for a 3000 mile Pure 45kw version.
The "profit" makes for a significant buffer for my petrol costs over the next year or two.
I now have a Golf eHybrid and can charge at home.
My point is it works for me and perhaps for others it won't.
We are all individuals.
G

[monkeyhanger]

Probably more like 350-400 if you did 80-10% of your tank of diesel!

The difference being that the diesel can "rapid charge" (refill the tank)at the rate of about 200 miles for every minute at the pumps. We're all starting to see cracks in the EV argument as the electricity prices shoot up. Many EV owners got theirs on the promise that they 'd save a fortune vs the pumps to offset the higher costs of an EV at tgecost of some minor inconvenience if you mainly charge at home and major inconvenience if you don't. .Even new Go contracts are about to be imposed 12.5p per kWh in the cheap period, that's 80% of what the peak prices were a year ago!

[OB1CCFC]

Probably more like 350-400 if you did 80-10% of your tank of diesel!

The difference being that the diesel can "rapid charge" (refill the tank)at the rate of about 200 miles for every minute at the pumps. We're all starting to see cracks in the EV argument as the electricity prices shoot up. Many EV owners got theirs on the promise that they 'd save a fortune vs the pumps to offset the higher costs of an EV at tgecost of some minor inconvenience if you mainly charge at home and major inconvenience if you don't. .Even new Go contracts are about to be imposed 12.5p per kWh in the cheap period, that's 80% of what the peak prices were a year ago!

It’s not that much difference when you go for a coffee, sandwich and a pee then fill up with diesel and drive off vs plug in and go for a coffee, sandwich and a pee, then unplug and drive off.
Btw 12.5p per kWh is about £17 for an equivalent ‘full tank’. I am paying 7.5p until Oct 2023.
Things aren’t as peachy as they were but for many EV drivers there are still significant day to day savings to somewhat offset the big outlay.

[smyth1492]

Probably more like 350-400 if you did 80-10% of your tank of diesel!

Exactly.
Ps. If you are going on a long journey, charge to 100%. I do 90% overnight and finish the final 10% in the morning before setting off.
Pps. But it’s all about your personal requirements in the end. How many very long runs do you have well away from your home in a year?
If it’s significant have a look at the WeCharge subscriptions which will likely be of cost benefit. https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electri ... harge.html
(I used one on a trip to the Swiss border last summer and to Skye. Easily paid for itself).

I have one, Osprey charges did not accept the card

[OB1CCFC]

Probably more like 350-400 if you did 80-10% of your tank of diesel!

Exactly.
Ps. If you are going on a long journey, charge to 100%. I do 90% overnight and finish the final 10% in the morning before setting off.
Pps. But it’s all about your personal requirements in the end. How many very long runs do you have well away from your home in a year?
If it’s significant have a look at the WeCharge subscriptions which will likely be of cost benefit. https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electri ... harge.html
(I used one on a trip to the Swiss border last summer and to Skye. Easily paid for itself).

I have one, Osprey charges did not accept the card

I think it should work. I certainly used Osprey a lot via my WeCharge RFID card. But don’t think there’s any WeCharge subscription discount!
(Not used an Osprey for a few months now though…)